Loud for the Men: Partners, Cheerleaders & Dads Who Lifts Us

0:00 Welcome to Loud and Lifted, the podcast where we celebrate bold women and brave moves. I'm your host, Betsy Hamm. Today, we're doing something a little different. We're getting loud for the men. Through nearly every conversation we've had with women on this show, one theme keeps rising to the top, and that's support, and the importance of support in order to be successful in life. The kind of support that shows up late at night with a pep talk, early in the morning with coffee and calm, and every moment in between. That support comes from someone behind the scenes, a partner, a husband, a father, who's been in it with them, not just cheering from the sideline, but walking the path alongside them. They provide unwavering support, strength, and heart. So, in honor of Father's Day, we're passing the mic to a few of those incredible men, the ones helping raise strong daughters, backing bold women, and proving that strength doesn't always need the spotlight. This is a compilation of honest and thoughtful conversations with the men who lift us. Let's get loud for them. First of all, tell me about your wife professionally and what she does. So my wife is Margaret Miller better known as the founder and where of all hats for all things three little birds boutique she started the business I think in 2017 out of our house and has grown it to multiple locations and even

1:31 has integrated her own design company into the company to produce and manufacture her own clothing for the stores super passionate about what she does and I've never met anyone who works harder than she does. Oh, that's awesome. And I totally agree. And we had the opportunity to talk to Margaret on one of our first podcasts. And one of her big takeaways, I think for everyone was the fact of how supportive you have been to her. Sounds like you're really the instigator to her to give her the confidence and to be able to do this. So talk to me a little bit about back in Las Vegas, when you said, hey, you need to go out on your own. Like, how did that even come about? And did you feel really confident sitting there? and getting behind it. Yeah. So I mean, at the time she was involved in a company called Lularoe, which I'm sure people listening to at one point were familiar with. And it was really good for her. She was one of the early people who got involved in that and I think grew as the company experienced a lot of growth. But there was some challenges with that. And I think a lack of creative direction that she was able to provide. So, you know, when, when you were a Lularoe consultant, you placed orders for things and you just got whatever they sent you. And so sometimes you got good stuff and sometimes you didn't get good stuff. And, uh, it was really frustrating when you would, you know, spend all this money on this inventory and it would come in and she's disappointed with, with what came in. And I think at that time, you know, she had grown to a point where it was evident to me that.

3:07 She understood a lot of the basic principles of business and was able to be successful in that. Why not give yourself the ability to have a little bit more control of the direction of it and your own branding and build some personal brand equity at the same time. And so for her 30th birthday, we took a trip out to Las Vegas. And I can remember we were at a dinner at a restaurant at the Bellagio. And I said, listen, like... You know, rather than continuing down this path, I know, you know, it's taking a risk and you're kind of giving up a lot of the certainty in your life right now. But I think you're going to be so much more successful and so much happier if you go, go do this. And by the way, like, don't worry about like the risk that we're taking.

3:48 Like we'll figure that out. I think it's just going to be better in the long -term. So maybe gave her a little bit of a nudge to kind of go out on her own and try something without the support of some type of corporation behind her, which was really a new experience for her. Uh, but I really saw the potential in it and potential in her. And I thought she'd just be really successful at it. Oh, that's so awesome. And so obviously there's ups and downs in any business. So how do you support the ups and the downs on her throughout the years? Being a small business owner is no easy task, right? It's like watching your day off, turn into a quick work check every time. Like there's, there's, it's really hard to turn the switch off. And so I think, you know, for her, she's always. thinking about and worried about not just her customers, but her employees and the community and everything really. So it's important for me to be able to support her through all of the challenges. There's financial challenges.

4:45 There's uh, people challenges, uh, both from a customer standpoint, as well as, you know, from an employee standpoint. And so, you know, I think we balance each other out really well. I tell people a lot of times, like the key to success is having lots of dogs. So for those who don't know, we've got five dogs. And I think one of the things that is like incredibly valuable in our relationship, because there's plenty of days where like we say hi in the mornings and then like, we don't see each other till we're in bed at night. And by then we're both too exhausted to talk to each other. But if it's nice out, you can almost guarantee that after dinner we're gonna take the dogs for a walk, and it's usually just the two of us. And so that's kind of our opportunity to kind of talk through issues, whether it's on the personal front, what we have going on that week, and making sure that we've got coverage for kids. get them to practices and whatever, but then also just to kind of talk through some business issues. And, you know, I don't have all the answers, but, you know, sometimes it's just being able to listen and let her kind of express what she wants to talk about and ask the questions. And she's pretty good at coming to her own conclusions and figuring the solutions out herself. Oh, that's awesome.

5:50 And that's so important being intentional about spending time because you have a demanding career too. So you both are running in different directions. You have three kids. I forgot it was five dogs. Good Lord. So there's a lot of chaos, right? Going on around you and taking that time to make sure you connect is really important for the professional piece of it. And also, of course, just personally. Yeah, I think, you know, having two people who have demanding careers that might take us in different directions, it's really important for us to have, you know, some time for just the two of us. And then also just the time for us each individually too. And so you have to be intentional about it. And sometimes that means, you know, skipping out on doing some things that, you know, you should get done, but just have to put them to the side and say, listen, I'll take care of that later. This is more important.

6:36 That's very true. Prioritizing for sure. So is there one moment that you're most proud of her throughout the last few years of her career? I think collectively, one of the things that I'm really proud of is when we first started down this journey with her, I can remember Nick trying to negotiate for her first location and she was working with or talking with a commercial real estate broker. that industry is predominantly male dominated. And she was talking with this person and without making any preconceived notions of what his intentions behind some of his comments were kind of was talking to her like, Hey, is this a hobby for you? Is this a real business?

7:18 You know, is you just some, you know, cute girl who's trying to do something for fun. It's like a real thing for you. And so, you know, it's really amazing for me to kind of see the success that she's had over the years to kind of prove everybody wrong. Because I think people get into that business just to have one store and some people it's, you know, they've got a rich husband and, you know, this is something to keep them busy, but I'm really proud of sort of what she's built and, you know, building this thing into multiple locations, being an influencer within the community and then a great role model to our kids too. Yeah. So let's talk about your kids. So you have two boys and a girl. So especially with your daughter, what do you hope that you're showing her? I know she's young and her getting married and have a career seems really far away.

8:02 But what do you hope she's learning from the two of you and being good examples? Yeah, so I hope she sees sort of the way that that we treat each other and the balance that we have because Some people say marriage is 50 -50 is no in no way shape or form 50 -50 It's a hundred a hundred and so, you know I hope she sees that we're both trying to make efforts to make sure each of us are fulfilled in our lives and that neither of us has a career that's more important than the other and it's not about who makes more money and cash flow that we're building other things that are both complementary to one another I think Josephine's 12 going on 23 and her and I are very different personalities and we tend to clash probably more than I do with my boys.

8:45 I think I view my role as more making sure my boys understand what it means to have a successful driven. a purposeful wife and you know how to treat that person and making sure that you know their life is just as fulfilled as your own because I think I see a lot of times you know the the stereotypical male breadwinner female who has to uh the wife who's who's the cooker and you know the house cleaner and all of those things and for some women like that's not fulfilling life to them and so you know everybody needs to be happy and and uh for us that's that's not a source of happiness when one of us is doing all of that the other one's you know going out having this great career and being social. Right. No, I totally, totally get that in the same boat for sure. So what is some advice you would have for other men who think that maybe they need to be a better partner and supporter of their spouse or girlfriend? I think the first step is the same thing that I deal with all my clients is like really just sitting down and having a conversation about like, what do you want out of life? you know, what, what does that look like for you? What is the ideal situation for, for that person or that individual? And then, you know, being their supporter, like you don't always have to be in the spotlight. Like maybe that person has the personality and the desire and the drive to be really successful at something.

10:00 And like their, their light's already shining. Your job is just not to block it. Stay out of the way of, of their happiness and success. And in my experience, you know, that usually works out for you, for you pretty well too. The only other thing that I think like really comes to mind for me is understanding how I think some social stereotypes play into the emotional side of being a woman in business. Anybody who asks me can get my opinion pretty quickly on things like social media and Instagram and TikTok. And, you know, I think that it's such a big part of society today. And I'm like the most anti social media person on the planet, uh, because I don't really see anything good coming from it. That being said, it's like a huge part of, of like being in business today is to promote your products or services on social media. see the other side of it right where you know things aren't always easy and there are challenges and it's it's not all sunshine and rainbows and so I think it's it's really important for people to understand that just because you might see somebody feeling happy or successful on social media doesn't mean that it's it's the same way behind the curtain and so particularly for your spouse or your partner like you can't harbor these feelings of animosity or jealousy you know for people who maybe or appear to be having success the time and get to know you know what's going on really with the person because it's not always the case.

11:25 No, that's so true. That's a great point. So you said you're not on social media very often. I want to make sure, you know, there's a viral video of you out there wearing flare jeans. Yeah. It's not my favorite thing in the world to do. And so, I mean, you bring up a good point. You know, sometimes you're going to have to do things that make you uncomfortable in order to help your spouse be successful in their endeavors too. I was going to say that's the, like another level of being supportive, right? Like you're there emotionally, you're there for the conversations. You never knew that you were going to have to do something like that. And it would be so... popular, right? Yeah, that's good. And it's it's kind of cool. I mean, I kind of view her as like this rock star or this, you know, celebrity and like I get backstage passes behind the scenes, you know, jealous of that. Yeah. Mike Harrell, thank you so much for joining me on Loud and Lifted. You're one of our very first male guests, so congrats to you. And the reason why you're here today is because you are an amazing, supportive man to an amazing wife. And we're here to talk today about how you do such a great job supporting your wife while you have your own very high stress, high important career too. So first of all, let's talk about your wife because that's fun. What does she do professionally? She is actually the chief revenue officer for a specialty insurance pharmaceutical company that provides alternative options for employers to be able to save money

12:55 on health care and medications and things like that. She's been in specialty pharma, I would say, for close to 20 years now as a vice president, director, et cetera. Hey, the fact that you can explain what she does is good because that's not really like cut and dry and basic. Yeah. I was just thinking, I hope that was right. I know I'm close. I know I'm close. Erin will let us know if not, but that sounded good. Sounds important. And she recently got a promotion just a few months ago, weeks ago. Yep. Absolutely. From vice president to the chief revenue officer in his company. So it's exciting and well -deserved. She works hard. For sure. So through the years and through her promotions, how have you taken an active role in supporting her career? And obviously I think she's had pretty strong ambitions as well. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is just kind of being intentional about how I want to make sure that she feels supported, right?

13:51 I wanted to kind of relieve any stress that she had, especially when traveling. It was time that she had to travel a lot to let her know that, you know, I'm here. I'm going to be handling things. You know, we can get support of family, but, you know, it's okay, right? You know, whether it was. myself doing it, which I had to do at times or her. I think that just trying to be intentional and make sure that, you know, things don't miss a beat. She's always great. We try to pre plan when she's going to travel as far as meals and schedule and everything like that. And, you know, me just trying to take that ball and run to the best of my ability to do the things that she normally would do as well. So and we should mention you have three kids. So especially when they're young and they have. kind of an age difference between your oldest and youngest.

14:32 So you've been living in two worlds here for a while. Absolutely, right? Yeah, we have 18 who's soon to graduate from high school, 16 soon to be a junior, and we have a seven -year -old soon to be in third grade. So yeah, absolutely the full gamut as far as raising children right now. That's awesome. So what's one thing that you're most proud of her through her career? Honestly, one of the things that I'm really proud of is, you know, I love her ambition and drive, but more so I love that she's been able to persevere through, you know, various scenarios, you know, being in management, being a director, you know, being a female and a male dominated industry or positions group. I love the fact that she's stayed the course no matter how rough things have gotten and made the appropriate moves and allowed her work to do the talking for her and become successful. So I'm really proud of her perseverance as well as her ambition and drive not to let anyone knock her off of her direction.

15:36 And what kind of good words of encouragement do you have? Because we all have those highs and lows when she was probably down at some point. Oh, absolutely. You know confidence which we all go through. So, you know, how do you kind of talk through that? I just try to remain positive. I keep telling her like hey, it's going to work out right I know she is she definitely someone who is concerned and will worry You know, I try to be positive and try to have like the most respectful interpretation like hey Things are going to work out. We'll figure it out. Like we always have over You know our 21st 25 plus years together like it's going to work out right? You know have faith and keep doing what you're doing, and I believe it's gonna work out, and I do, especially when it comes to her. Yeah, that's awesome. You also have a very important job, and it's probably very demanding, so how do you balance out that she also is there to support you? The same, right? I think that we try to make sure we hyper -communicate on things that need, that has to be done, whether it's appointments or... extended work hours or if I have to travel or do something, right, be able to hyper communicate and kind of adjust, you know, kind of on a fly and stay agile. And then, you know, she's also been very supportive, right, throughout my career, where there's been changes of companies or, you know, maybe a little bit difference in my role or maybe I want to kind of step out and start a LLC, which I've been able to do. She's been there to support and help me out through that. So that's great. So you've used three really, I think, important words, right? You started talked about being intentional and you talked about being positive and optimistic,

17:08 which is huge. And now you just use communication. So you got these three big buckets that you probably focus on. Maybe you didn't even realize it, but now that we're making you think about this, is there anything else like that that you think is important to have a successful partnership in marriage and that's professionally and personally? Yeah. I mean, I think that you know, you gotta communicate, right? You can always be better at communicating, but, you know, have to communicate, especially when it comes to what you're, you know, how you're feeling about your career and your goals. I think that you need to, you know, also... Guess you know like I said be positive and support one another but then you know also be there when things aren't going You know the way that you want to write to have someone there to kind of balance you out when maybe you're ready to give up or You're ready to try something different or you're ready. You know you're on the ledge I think you know doing that as well, and I think that you know Having you know mutual respect right like I respect her and her career goals, and I you know when she respects me and my career goals right Nick It depends on kind of where you are in life, right? Me being a talent acquisition, you know, I've worked with so many different types of individuals where, you know, different things are important. I think a lot of times people think, oh, someone will take this job for more money. Well, you know, as you become older, as you know, right, different things become more important to you, right? Like I have a daughter is graduating, going to college, right?

18:32 I have someone young and things are, you know, it's different, important levels. And I think that being able to understand that with your partner is huge, right? Definitely. Sometimes you might have to take a step back, right? For the greater good, right? To be a good team player and that's okay. Absolutely. It's that balance for sure. Everybody can't be going a hundred miles per hour in different directions. Yep. I agree. So do you think there's still stereotypes out there, whether it's for women and or men just kind of like who's the breadwinner, who has the big career? I mean, do you feel that? Do you hear that? All the time, all the time, especially when we're dealing with, you know, let's say home repair outside salespeople where they want to talk with me and I'm like, hey, you need to talk with with Aaron, right? Because they may be in some, you know, older traditional or, you know, former ideology where like, hey, I got to talk to the man of the house, which, you know, is absolutely fine. But it doesn't just need to be me. I don't have the final word.

19:27 One of the things I think that Aaron and I do very well is that we try to, you know, mutually agree on things like now. It's definitely stuff that, you know, I will. Take a step back because she's better at that and then you know vice versa with me trying to lean into our strengths, right? But oh, yeah, absolutely. I think you know, I think women definitely get the stereotype of settlement right like oh, you know He's the man of the house or he's fixing and building everything which I am NOT right or you know the meaning Women has to do these certain things and cleaning and all this other stuff. And, you know, we try not to live by those rules, especially with children and living in a different world, right? Right.

20:07 For sure. And when you're both working, it's really hard. You have to juggle and whatever you can outsource. Like I'm a big fan of outsourcing, whether it's when the kids were younger, the, you know, strong daycare or whatever it was. Oh, 100%. Right. Because you're paying for your time. I think that's what people don't actually understand. Cause that's the commodity. You can't get back. Right. Yeah. So what's something you think people misunderstand about being the partner of a strong, driven woman? The caveat for people who don't know you is you're also a strong, driven man, right? Yeah, I would say, yeah. That's a very interesting dynamic, that you both have this drive. You're both strong. I wouldn't want to argue with either one of you on it. How does that work from a partnership? I mean, we definitely butt heads. I'd be lying to you if I say we didn't, especially over time. But I would say it's also what helps. us, right? It helps us become a partner, like we're competitive and, you know, we both have strong opinions and want to be heard. And, you know, it's definitely times where it gets me probably in more trouble. But I think the biggest thing, you know, when it comes to that is, you know, again, having that understanding of your partner and who they are and kind of what's important to them. And then you can kind of, you know, I would say adjust accordingly, so to speak. And when it comes to that, I think that Again communicating and talking about your goals and talking about things that are important to you, right? So it is no surprise, right? Like I don't come home with, you know, a new car without

21:38 obviously consulting with my wife, right? We want to make the best decisions for our family. I think the biggest misconception that goes into that, especially when you dealing with someone who is, you know, in a higher position or successful is that they are a certain way, right? Like, oh, well, you know, if your wife is in the C suite, then, you know, she automatically means that she's hyper aggressive and no nonsense and hard nose and probably less sensitive. And, you know, and those things don't have to be true or vice versa. It's like, Oh, people will meet my wife and you think, Oh, well, Mike, we know that, you know, you're probably not in charge or, you know, she's running this or, you know, my wife's a black belt, right. And, and has been for a long time. And so I always, when I tell people that they're like, Oh, I know that she can kind of beat you up. Right? So you hear all types of things that come along with, you know, either, and it's the same as you have a husband who's in a, you know, a higher low position, perceived, um, and people are always going to assume certain things anyway. So I'm kind of used to that, right? I, I try not to let outside, uh, opinions, right, dictate who I am and what I want to do, especially within my house. Nice.

22:47 our house. Oh yeah, good correction. I almost let that go. That's my daughter, right? She constantly is correcting me on my verbiage. Hey, so speaking of your daughter, let's talk about your kids. So first your daughter, who's we've just mentioned 18 and graduating from high school heading off to college. So through these last, you know, 17, 16 years, what have you been trying to instill in her or, you know, from what you're doing or what your wife's doing to be that example to help, you know, create this great path for her? You know, one thing is I'm always talking to her about effort, right? You can control your effort. Also, don't let anyone stop you from doing something you really want, right? Because we're in a world where you see so many different reflections or AI or social media of what this is and what that is and how you should and shouldn't be, right? Like, if you're passionate about something that's something you want to obtain, then you need to work hard at it, right? Everybody's talented, so to speak, right? But talent isn't enough, right? You'll have to persevere and work hard.

23:52 I've always tried to kind of stress that to my daughter. Find your passion, but no matter what, always put full effort into it and understand it. you're the prize and you're the talent, right? So whether she's going to college, yeah, she's the talent, right? The school was lucky to have her, whether it's, you know, a special relationship or what have you. Those are things I've always tried to reinforce my daughter and for her to be herself. And if that's different than everyone else, then that's okay, because at some point, everyone was different and maybe got looked at a certain way, right? But that time, that stuff passes. That's very true. I mean, we don't want to think about her growing up and getting married. She's just getting to college, but down the road, let's say 10, 20 years, we'll extend it. But what do you hope that she looks for in that partner that she's learned from watching you and Aaron?

24:43 I'd like to think that she can see that someone can be her authentic self and still be everything that's needed, whether it's a father or a husband. And she still can be herself and love for that. who she truly is and not who she's trying to dictate to society norms and who she should be and how she should act. So I think that's something that I hope that she finds in someone, right? I love that. That was so nice. So what's some advice you have for men who want to be a better partner to their wife, girlfriend? Oh gosh. I feel like I should have also asked the women this secretly, like unload the dishwasher and take out the garbage that we lost. Yeah. I literally can hear my wife's voice in the back of things that I can do to help her out and I try to be aware of. But I mean, honestly, I think the biggest advice that I can give is that to always try, right? You're going to fall down. You're going to fail. You're going to make mistakes. Keep trying, right? Try to get better, right? I always want to be a better father or, you know, a better husband and better at something that I'm doing.

25:54 Especially when you get, you know, you're blessed with the opportunity to, you know, correct maybe certain mistakes or better explain yourself or your intentions, right? Because intentions versus impact are two different things all the time. So I think the biggest advice I gained is to, you know, not give up and keep trying, right? Right. No, that's a great point. And everybody messes up and we have days where we're not great husbands or wives or parents and that's life. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those days, moods and everything else. But one thing I will do is I have no problem apologizing, right? I apologize for my kids. I'm sorry if I made you feel this way. You know, this is my intent. Understand that everything that I'm doing is coming from a place of love and admiration. You are the best thing that's ever happened to me. And you mean the most to me, right? But I'm not perfect, right? Being a parent doesn't come with a manual. Any other parting words, thoughts or advice as we wrap up? I would say, you know, overall, I think what we can do better is, you know, forgive and be able to move on. Right. I think that we got to keep the main things the main things. Right.

27:00 And is everything else that serious and that is that important to the grand scheme of things? Right. We only hear what feels like a short time. Try to keep the main thing, the main thing, and let other stuff go. It's okay. You don't have to forget, but you can forgive and act accordingly. Well, great. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Maurice Knight. Welcome to Loud and Lifted. Thank you so much for being here. Today, we're going to talk about men and the support that you guys have for the women in your life. So let's start with talking about your wife. Tell me about Leslie and what she does professionally. My wife Leslie's been in the Air Force for I think like 18 or 19 years now. Currently, she works for the Department of Defense, Mortuary Affairs. Prior to that, and then coming up here soon, she'll be back in her former position as Inspector General.

27:56 That's awesome. And you know, obviously a lot of what we talk about in this podcast is professional, you know, small business owners or in big corporate organizations. And you guys live in this whole different world being in the military and you as well, also having a military career. Yeah, yeah, definitely. One of us had to, so I recently retired because one of us had to call it quits so we can get some normalcy around the house. Yeah. So let's talk about that first actually. So you both have spent your entire career in the military with crazy schedules and it felt like one of you was deployed, what, like every other year. You had small kids. Like, how have you guys balanced both having these really successful military careers and your kids? So once we both got to the leadership level, I had just gotten back from Iraq and we decided, you know, we both can't have crazy successful careers and do the things we want to do professionally at the same time. So we made an agreement that every other assignment, one of us would take that key assignment and the other one would kind of take a background role. And so we did that for a while until it didn't work. So it worked for a little bit. But once you reach certain senior levels in the military, you don't have a choice but take difficult assignments.

29:13 So as things progressed, we tried our best to do that. And then we just worked the flexibility around each other's schedules. So fortunately, we both worked for some amazing supervisors that really did put family first and understood we're only as good. at work as we are at home. So there was a lot of exceptions for us throughout the time and different things, but we all still continue to work. You know, sometimes we had to, if she was gone, I'd work and then pick up the kids and then come home and work some more until I was tired or vice versa. You know, she would do the same thing. So if I was deployed, she'd have to leave work early, pick up the kids, and then she'd get home and kind of get back on and finish up some things she didn't get to throughout the day. So when she was deployed, especially, did you ever sit back and be like, shoot, why did I agree to this? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

30:08 You know, there's a lot of days I'd say. I wish she would get out or what are we doing here? I don't know how to do any of this. But I also had a really good support network. You know, my mom would come down here. She owned the hour and a half away. So she'd come down and help. A lot of friends would pick up the kids and take them places. I even had supervisors pick up my kids and take them places. So just to give me a break and different time off and then. So you've almost given that. bigger is normal than sacrifice people do to support their wives is, you know, you had to make changes to your career path. And then also you had to be a single dad. Yeah. So besides that, which is like one of the ultimate things, how else have you supported Leslie through the years? You know, I always say I'm her biggest cheerleader and it really is a team effort and selfishly, the better she does, the better we do. So I know some people struggle with that because there are still traditional roles. where the wife is expected to be around the house and keep things sane there. And the husband's expected to go to work. But I think a lot of that's changed throughout the years. And some marriages still struggle with that, you know. It's always a team effort and whatever she does and whatever she excels in, you know, our family benefits from it. So are you signing up for all housework and chores and making dinner? Like, is that how this goes now? No, I still don't like the full laundry.

31:35 At this point, you know what each person brings, what strengths they bring to the table. So how do you serve as that cheerleader? How do you have that backbone support for her through the years of her career? So in the military, I was enlisted. I retired as a first sergeant. She's an officer. She's a major. So I'm used to being attached to an officer as their advisor, as a senior NCO or senior enlisted. One of the things that I've done, whether she likes it or not, is I try to be a coach because not everyone has a great advisor attached to them. So when we talk about things at home, I try to advise based off my experience as a senior leader and things along those lines. I 100 % help her a lot of things like making decisions on what the next assignment is. And she'll say, what do you think about this? Anything that's out there that's going to... to improve her ability to do her job and advance her career, I'm all over doing it. If it means she's got to be reassigned for a couple of years, you know it is what it is.

32:40 It only benefits us in the long run. So what's one moment you're most proud of in her career and watching her succeed? So she probably killed me for telling you this story. I got back from Afghanistan and we were talking and she wanted to go from enlisted to being an officer. You know to do that you got to go through a school so we had MJ and six months after we had MJ she had to go to this school and she had to take a physical fitness test and Sit -ups after having a baby is not the simplest thing to do and she got there and You know she struggled with the sit -ups and didn't pass when she got there and at most schools They will send you home if you don't pass they allowed her to stay and she came out and She had to take her final one right before graduation to become an officer. And I said, I'm getting on a plane. I'm flying down there.

33:32 I'm going to do this PT test with you. And I can't get the flight fast enough down there. And I'm in the air while she's taking the test. And when she gets done, she texts me and she says, hey, I passed the entire class. Did the sit -ups with her, ran with her. She was the only one taking it, but they all came out and did it with her. And that's pretty big to accomplish something like that, you know, six to eight months after having a child. So that allowed her to become an officer and it's a big step, you know? And plus, you know, a lot of these soldiers and airmen, they're doing this at 18 to 20 years old. You know, she's doing this after having two kids. Right. I think it's a big step what resilience it shows, you know, she has a commitment to get it done and she, you know, she chased after what she wanted and she got it. So we also have this thing we do when you commission as an officer, you do a first salute. So you have to salute someone that's enlisted. So I did her first salute as well. So I still have that. There's a coin they give you. It's like a silver dollar.

34:32 So I still keep that. in my wallet. I love that. All right. Let's switch gears a little bit. Let's talk about your kids. So you're raising teenagers. You have a, oh my gosh, soon to be senior in a high school and a sophomore girl, and then a son who's going to be a sophomore in high school. So how do you guys try to be good examples or role models to, you know, you have two different versions, right? Like you're trying to raise a strong girl, woman. You're trying to raise your son to be, you know, a great future husband. Like how do you guys think about that intentionally when you both have these, you're both great role models. So how do you like activate that to make sure you're raising your kids to be like you guys? You know, honestly, we don't think we're doing a great job. It's not a normal family.

35:13 You know, there's a lot of families that are single parents. And, you know, I kind of believe when you grow up in that single parent home I did for a while, you know, that's your expectation is right there. You depend on your mom or your dad. And it doesn't change that stage you're seeing unless that parent gets married somewhere. With our kids, they had the constant coming and going of one parent home, another parent leaving. And to me, looking at them and watching them, I think that's a tougher, that's been a tougher transition because there is no continuity. you might have mom for this time and then you might have dad for this time. And mom has a different standard and dad has a different standard. So it's tough on the kids to get to that point.

35:56 And I think for a while they really struggled with it. Because like I said, sometimes work has to come home with you. Is it the right answer? It's absolutely not the right answer, but we're fully invested in. when you're a leader, you know, it just doesn't stop. And it's unfortunate, but it just doesn't stop. You have you have people that you're responsible for. So you have to take care of them regardless of the time. And, you know, I think our kids struggle a lot with phone calls late at night, the different changes. So we've had to try to put some things in a place to minimize the impact to them. But, you know, it's it's been a challenge. But I also having kids that are resilient really helps. Our kids don't complain a lot. They have learned to, unfortunately or fortunately, they have learned to do a lot of things on their own. So they've learned to take care of some things. If mom was gone, Maya would really help with MJ with his homework and do different things along those lines. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, obviously it's not a great situation for your kids while you're going through it, but they're both so independent and mature and, you know, help to build their confidence that they can do this. So it probably doesn't feel good while you're going through it. Of course, nobody wants their parent to go away for months and be worried about where they are and what they're doing. You know, I think seeing the other side of like, hey, I was able to pull this off when mom or dad was away. You know, we said to the kids, you know, we've got to take a day at

37:27 a time. It's a long game. Well, really, what the long game was that they now, they didn't understand when they were younger, they now understand why we did those things. So fortunately, our kids are gonna go to college 100 % tuition free to any college they work in the nation. And you know, Maya, I think Maya struggled a little bit more than MJ. She's more vocal than MJ with some of this stuff. So she struggled a little bit more for years. And then about last year, it really clicked. And then this year it starts, it's really we've noticed that change with her as she's talking about college and picking a place she wants to go and talking with friends. She doesn't have to take loans. We don't have to take loans. She doesn't have to do a lot of things. She's not going to be, she's not going to graduate with any debt at all unless she does something crazy and takes a loan. But, you know, she shouldn't even have to do that because she has a stipend to stay in school as well. So I think the long run might have been tough, you know, coming through. But in the long run, it really benefits the kids overall. Yeah, well, that's great. And yeah, you guys deserve that.

38:30 You made some major sacrifices through the last 20 -some years. So that's pretty cool. So what is advice that you would have for other men who want to be more supportive of their spouses? You know, I think it's a challenge for multiple things. You know, sometimes guys are our hardest critics. You know, we look at other guys and they say just girls are caddy. Now, guys are caddy too, especially husbands. So breaking news. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can be caddy too, but we can also be competitive. So sometimes it's hard to watch, you know, certain things and want to say something. But I would I would say. the spouses the wife is no different than you know the guy so like you got to kind of drop your pride and Be cool with certain things and understand it really is a team effort. No, it's not in even though you're married It's not an individual effort, you know, it's more of I think it's more work being home full -time and trying to handle kids and doing everything else than going to work. I wouldn't want to be a full -time house husband with kids at all, ever. So I would say, you know what? You got to drop the pride and understand the true benefits and the goals where you're trying to get to with your family. If you want to stay in the same spot, you're in.

39:52 And I know I have friends that work two jobs. And just so their spouse can stay home and take care of the house because it was a traditional role, I think that's ridiculous. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. Things have changed so much over time. Dude, just drop the pride. Your spouse is, your wife is killing this career. Support her, get behind her, because it only benefits you. Absolutely. That's great advice. Thank you so much for being part of OutLifted and thank you so much for being supportive to the women in your life. To the men we spotlighted today and to the many more like them, thank you. Thank you for being steady when the storms roll in, for making room when the dreams get big, and for helping raise the next generation with grit, grace, and a whole lot of love. Never underestimate the power that support can be. Let's keep talking about it, let's keep celebrating it, and let's keep getting loud and lifted for the people who make it all possible. Happy Father's Day, and thank you to all the dads out there who are supporting the women in their lives.