Loud for the Men: Partners, Cheerleaders & Dads Who Lifts Us

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Welcome to Loud and Lifted, the podcast where

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we celebrate bold women and brave moves. I'm

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your host, Betsy Hamm. Today, we're doing something

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a little different. We're getting loud for the

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men. Through nearly every conversation we've

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had with women on this show, one theme keeps

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rising to the top, and that's support, and the

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importance of support in order to be successful

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in life. The kind of support that shows up late

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at night with a pep talk, early in the morning

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with coffee and calm, and every moment in between.

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That support comes from someone behind the scenes,

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a partner, a husband, a father, who's been in

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it with them, not just cheering from the sideline,

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but walking the path alongside them. They provide

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unwavering support, strength, and heart. So,

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in honor of Father's Day, we're passing the mic

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to a few of those incredible men, the ones helping

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raise strong daughters, backing bold women, and

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proving that strength doesn't always need the

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spotlight. This is a compilation of honest and

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thoughtful conversations with the men who lift

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us. Let's get loud for them. First of all, tell

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me about your wife professionally and what she

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does. So my wife is Margaret Miller better known

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as the founder and where of all hats for all

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things three little birds boutique she started

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the business I think in 2017 out of our house

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and has grown it to multiple locations and even

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has integrated her own design company into the

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company to produce and manufacture her own clothing

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for the stores super passionate about what she

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does and I've never met anyone who works harder

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than she does. Oh, that's awesome. And I totally

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agree. And we had the opportunity to talk to

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Margaret on one of our first podcasts. And one

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of her big takeaways, I think for everyone was

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the fact of how supportive you have been to her.

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Sounds like you're really the instigator to her

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to give her the confidence and to be able to

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do this. So talk to me a little bit about back

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in Las Vegas, when you said, hey, you need to

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go out on your own. Like, how did that even come

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about? And did you feel really confident sitting

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there? and getting behind it. Yeah. So I mean,

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at the time she was involved in a company called

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Lularoe, which I'm sure people listening to at

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one point were familiar with. And it was really

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good for her. She was one of the early people

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who got involved in that and I think grew as

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the company experienced a lot of growth. But

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there was some challenges with that. And I think

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a lack of creative direction that she was able

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to provide. So, you know, when, when you were

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a Lularoe consultant, you placed orders for things

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and you just got whatever they sent you. And

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so sometimes you got good stuff and sometimes

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you didn't get good stuff. And, uh, it was really

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frustrating when you would, you know, spend all

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this money on this inventory and it would come

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in and she's disappointed with, with what came

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in. And I think at that time, you know, she had

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grown to a point where it was evident to me that.

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She understood a lot of the basic principles

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of business and was able to be successful in

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that. Why not give yourself the ability to have

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a little bit more control of the direction of

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it and your own branding and build some personal

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brand equity at the same time. And so for her

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30th birthday, we took a trip out to Las Vegas.

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And I can remember we were at a dinner at a restaurant

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at the Bellagio. And I said, listen, like...

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You know, rather than continuing down this path,

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I know, you know, it's taking a risk and you're

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kind of giving up a lot of the certainty in your

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life right now. But I think you're going to be

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so much more successful and so much happier if

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you go, go do this. And by the way, like, don't

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worry about like the risk that we're taking.

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Like we'll figure that out. I think it's just

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going to be better in the long -term. So maybe

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gave her a little bit of a nudge to kind of go

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out on her own and try something without the

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support of some type of corporation behind her,

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which was really a new experience for her. Uh,

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but I really saw the potential in it and potential

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in her. And I thought she'd just be really successful

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at it. Oh, that's so awesome. And so obviously

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there's ups and downs in any business. So how

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do you support the ups and the downs on her throughout

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the years? Being a small business owner is no

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easy task, right? It's like watching your day

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off, turn into a quick work check every time.

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Like there's, there's, it's really hard to turn

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the switch off. And so I think, you know, for

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her, she's always. thinking about and worried

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about not just her customers, but her employees

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and the community and everything really. So it's

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important for me to be able to support her through

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all of the challenges. There's financial challenges.

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There's uh, people challenges, uh, both from

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a customer standpoint, as well as, you know,

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from an employee standpoint. And so, you know,

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I think we balance each other out really well.

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I tell people a lot of times, like the key to

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success is having lots of dogs. So for those

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who don't know, we've got five dogs. And I think

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one of the things that is like incredibly valuable

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in our relationship, because there's plenty of

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days where like we say hi in the mornings and

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then like, we don't see each other till we're

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in bed at night. And by then we're both too exhausted

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to talk to each other. But if it's nice out,

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you can almost guarantee that after dinner we're

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gonna take the dogs for a walk, and it's usually

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just the two of us. And so that's kind of our

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opportunity to kind of talk through issues, whether

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it's on the personal front, what we have going

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on that week, and making sure that we've got

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coverage for kids. get them to practices and

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whatever, but then also just to kind of talk

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through some business issues. And, you know,

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I don't have all the answers, but, you know,

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sometimes it's just being able to listen and

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let her kind of express what she wants to talk

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about and ask the questions. And she's pretty

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good at coming to her own conclusions and figuring

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the solutions out herself. Oh, that's awesome.

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And that's so important being intentional about

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spending time because you have a demanding career

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too. So you both are running in different directions.

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You have three kids. I forgot it was five dogs.

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Good Lord. So there's a lot of chaos, right?

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Going on around you and taking that time to make

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sure you connect is really important for the

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professional piece of it. And also, of course,

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just personally. Yeah, I think, you know, having

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two people who have demanding careers that might

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take us in different directions, it's really

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important for us to have, you know, some time

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for just the two of us. And then also just the

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time for us each individually too. And so you

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have to be intentional about it. And sometimes

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that means, you know, skipping out on doing some

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things that, you know, you should get done, but

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just have to put them to the side and say, listen,

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I'll take care of that later. This is more important.

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That's very true. Prioritizing for sure. So is

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there one moment that you're most proud of her

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throughout the last few years of her career?

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I think collectively, one of the things that

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I'm really proud of is when we first started

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down this journey with her, I can remember Nick

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trying to negotiate for her first location and

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she was working with or talking with a commercial

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real estate broker. that industry is predominantly

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male dominated. And she was talking with this

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person and without making any preconceived notions

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of what his intentions behind some of his comments

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were kind of was talking to her like, Hey, is

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this a hobby for you? Is this a real business?

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You know, is you just some, you know, cute girl

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who's trying to do something for fun. It's like

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a real thing for you. And so, you know, it's

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really amazing for me to kind of see the success

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that she's had over the years to kind of prove

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everybody wrong. Because I think people get into

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that business just to have one store and some

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people it's, you know, they've got a rich husband

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and, you know, this is something to keep them

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busy, but I'm really proud of sort of what she's

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built and, you know, building this thing into

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multiple locations, being an influencer within

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the community and then a great role model to

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our kids too. Yeah. So let's talk about your

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kids. So you have two boys and a girl. So especially

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with your daughter, what do you hope that you're

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showing her? I know she's young and her getting

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married and have a career seems really far away.

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But what do you hope she's learning from the

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two of you and being good examples? Yeah, so

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I hope she sees sort of the way that that we

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treat each other and the balance that we have

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because Some people say marriage is 50 -50 is

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no in no way shape or form 50 -50 It's a hundred

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a hundred and so, you know I hope she sees that

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we're both trying to make efforts to make sure

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each of us are fulfilled in our lives and that

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neither of us has a career that's more important

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than the other and it's not about who makes more

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money and cash flow that we're building other

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things that are both complementary to one another

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I think Josephine's 12 going on 23 and her and

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I are very different personalities and we tend

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to clash probably more than I do with my boys.

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I think I view my role as more making sure my

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boys understand what it means to have a successful

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driven. a purposeful wife and you know how to

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treat that person and making sure that you know

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their life is just as fulfilled as your own because

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I think I see a lot of times you know the the

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stereotypical male breadwinner female who has

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to uh the wife who's who's the cooker and you

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know the house cleaner and all of those things

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and for some women like that's not fulfilling

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life to them and so you know everybody needs

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to be happy and and uh for us that's that's not

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a source of happiness when one of us is doing

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all of that the other one's you know going out

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having this great career and being social. Right.

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No, I totally, totally get that in the same boat

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for sure. So what is some advice you would have

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for other men who think that maybe they need

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to be a better partner and supporter of their

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spouse or girlfriend? I think the first step

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is the same thing that I deal with all my clients

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is like really just sitting down and having a

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conversation about like, what do you want out

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of life? you know, what, what does that look

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like for you? What is the ideal situation for,

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for that person or that individual? And then,

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you know, being their supporter, like you don't

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always have to be in the spotlight. Like maybe

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that person has the personality and the desire

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and the drive to be really successful at something.

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And like their, their light's already shining.

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Your job is just not to block it. Stay out of

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the way of, of their happiness and success. And

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in my experience, you know, that usually works

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out for you, for you pretty well too. The only

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other thing that I think like really comes to

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mind for me is understanding how I think some

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social stereotypes play into the emotional side

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of being a woman in business. Anybody who asks

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me can get my opinion pretty quickly on things

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like social media and Instagram and TikTok. And,

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you know, I think that it's such a big part of

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society today. And I'm like the most anti social

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media person on the planet, uh, because I don't

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really see anything good coming from it. That

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being said, it's like a huge part of, of like

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being in business today is to promote your products

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or services on social media. see the other side

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of it right where you know things aren't always

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easy and there are challenges and it's it's not

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all sunshine and rainbows and so I think it's

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it's really important for people to understand

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that just because you might see somebody feeling

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happy or successful on social media doesn't mean

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that it's it's the same way behind the curtain

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and so particularly for your spouse or your partner

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like you can't harbor these feelings of animosity

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or jealousy you know for people who maybe or

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appear to be having success the time and get

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to know you know what's going on really with

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the person because it's not always the case.

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No, that's so true. That's a great point. So

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you said you're not on social media very often.

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I want to make sure, you know, there's a viral

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video of you out there wearing flare jeans. Yeah.

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It's not my favorite thing in the world to do.

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And so, I mean, you bring up a good point. You

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know, sometimes you're going to have to do things

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that make you uncomfortable in order to help

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your spouse be successful in their endeavors

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too. I was going to say that's the, like another

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level of being supportive, right? Like you're

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there emotionally, you're there for the conversations.

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You never knew that you were going to have to

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do something like that. And it would be so...

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popular, right? Yeah, that's good. And it's it's

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kind of cool. I mean, I kind of view her as like

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this rock star or this, you know, celebrity and

00:12:04.889 --> 00:12:09.190
like I get backstage passes behind the scenes,

00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:11.919
you know, jealous of that. Yeah. Mike Harrell,

00:12:12.220 --> 00:12:14.440
thank you so much for joining me on Loud and

00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:17.139
Lifted. You're one of our very first male guests,

00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:20.220
so congrats to you. And the reason why you're

00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:23.679
here today is because you are an amazing, supportive

00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:26.559
man to an amazing wife. And we're here to talk

00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.659
today about how you do such a great job supporting

00:12:29.659 --> 00:12:33.080
your wife while you have your own very high stress,

00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:36.039
high important career too. So first of all, let's

00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:37.600
talk about your wife because that's fun. What

00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.240
does she do professionally? She is actually the

00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.960
chief revenue officer for a specialty insurance

00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.740
pharmaceutical company that provides alternative

00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:55.860
options for employers to be able to save money

00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:58.639
on health care and medications and things like

00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.860
that. She's been in specialty pharma, I would

00:13:01.860 --> 00:13:05.279
say, for close to 20 years now as a vice president,

00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:07.909
director, et cetera. Hey, the fact that you can

00:13:07.909 --> 00:13:09.529
explain what she does is good because that's

00:13:09.529 --> 00:13:13.690
not really like cut and dry and basic. Yeah.

00:13:15.049 --> 00:13:17.029
I was just thinking, I hope that was right. I

00:13:17.029 --> 00:13:19.549
know I'm close. I know I'm close. Erin will let

00:13:19.549 --> 00:13:21.750
us know if not, but that sounded good. Sounds

00:13:21.750 --> 00:13:24.190
important. And she recently got a promotion just

00:13:24.190 --> 00:13:26.529
a few months ago, weeks ago. Yep. Absolutely.

00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:28.929
From vice president to the chief revenue officer

00:13:28.929 --> 00:13:31.929
in his company. So it's exciting and well -deserved.

00:13:32.490 --> 00:13:35.690
She works hard. For sure. So through the years

00:13:35.690 --> 00:13:37.909
and through her promotions, how have you taken

00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:40.049
an active role in supporting her career? And

00:13:40.049 --> 00:13:42.889
obviously I think she's had pretty strong ambitions

00:13:42.889 --> 00:13:45.830
as well. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing

00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:48.750
is just kind of being intentional about how I

00:13:48.750 --> 00:13:51.149
want to make sure that she feels supported, right?

00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:53.730
I wanted to kind of relieve any stress that she

00:13:53.730 --> 00:13:55.549
had, especially when traveling. It was time that

00:13:55.549 --> 00:13:57.629
she had to travel a lot to let her know that,

00:13:57.629 --> 00:13:59.269
you know, I'm here. I'm going to be handling

00:13:59.269 --> 00:14:02.049
things. You know, we can get support of family,

00:14:02.049 --> 00:14:05.350
but, you know, it's okay, right? You know, whether

00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:08.120
it was. myself doing it, which I had to do at

00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.840
times or her. I think that just trying to be

00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.139
intentional and make sure that, you know, things

00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:14.879
don't miss a beat. She's always great. We try

00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.159
to pre plan when she's going to travel as far

00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.019
as meals and schedule and everything like that.

00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:22.360
And, you know, me just trying to take that ball

00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.440
and run to the best of my ability to do the things

00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:26.779
that she normally would do as well. So and we

00:14:26.779 --> 00:14:28.600
should mention you have three kids. So especially

00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:30.480
when they're young and they have. kind of an

00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.100
age difference between your oldest and youngest.

00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.379
So you've been living in two worlds here for

00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:37.740
a while. Absolutely, right? Yeah, we have 18

00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:40.460
who's soon to graduate from high school, 16 soon

00:14:40.460 --> 00:14:43.500
to be a junior, and we have a seven -year -old

00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:45.899
soon to be in third grade. So yeah, absolutely

00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:48.899
the full gamut as far as raising children right

00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:52.139
now. That's awesome. So what's one thing that

00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:54.179
you're most proud of her through her career?

00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:57.240
Honestly, one of the things that I'm really proud

00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:00.539
of is, you know, I love her ambition and drive,

00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.799
but more so I love that she's been able to persevere

00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:06.620
through, you know, various scenarios, you know,

00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:10.080
being in management, being a director, you know,

00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.500
being a female and a male dominated industry

00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:17.139
or positions group. I love the fact that she's

00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.860
stayed the course no matter how rough things

00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:23.000
have gotten and made the appropriate moves and

00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:27.019
allowed her work to do the talking for her and

00:15:27.019 --> 00:15:29.799
become successful. So I'm really proud of her

00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:31.940
perseverance as well as her ambition and drive

00:15:31.940 --> 00:15:35.460
not to let anyone knock her off of her direction.

00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:37.600
And what kind of good words of encouragement

00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.039
do you have? Because we all have those highs

00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.879
and lows when she was probably down at some point.

00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.039
Oh, absolutely. You know confidence which we

00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.820
all go through. So, you know, how do you kind

00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:49.639
of talk through that? I just try to remain positive.

00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:52.279
I keep telling her like hey, it's going to work

00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.779
out right I know she is she definitely someone

00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:58.179
who is concerned and will worry You know, I try

00:15:58.179 --> 00:15:59.980
to be positive and try to have like the most

00:15:59.980 --> 00:16:02.720
respectful interpretation like hey Things are

00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:04.080
going to work out. We'll figure it out. Like

00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.320
we always have over You know our 21st 25 plus

00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.080
years together like it's going to work out right?

00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:13.200
You know have faith and keep doing what you're

00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.860
doing, and I believe it's gonna work out, and

00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:16.919
I do, especially when it comes to her. Yeah,

00:16:16.940 --> 00:16:19.600
that's awesome. You also have a very important

00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.720
job, and it's probably very demanding, so how

00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.759
do you balance out that she also is there to

00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:27.600
support you? The same, right? I think that we

00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.840
try to make sure we hyper -communicate on things

00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.700
that need, that has to be done, whether it's

00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:36.259
appointments or... extended work hours or if

00:16:36.259 --> 00:16:39.299
I have to travel or do something, right, be able

00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:41.840
to hyper communicate and kind of adjust, you

00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.820
know, kind of on a fly and stay agile. And then,

00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:46.679
you know, she's also been very supportive, right,

00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.179
throughout my career, where there's been changes

00:16:49.179 --> 00:16:51.580
of companies or, you know, maybe a little bit

00:16:51.580 --> 00:16:53.360
difference in my role or maybe I want to kind

00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.360
of step out and start a LLC, which I've been

00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:58.960
able to do. She's been there to support and help

00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:01.240
me out through that. So that's great. So you've

00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:03.200
used three really, I think, important words,

00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.269
right? You started talked about being intentional

00:17:05.269 --> 00:17:08.509
and you talked about being positive and optimistic,

00:17:08.589 --> 00:17:10.390
which is huge. And now you just use communication.

00:17:10.549 --> 00:17:13.369
So you got these three big buckets that you probably

00:17:13.369 --> 00:17:15.690
focus on. Maybe you didn't even realize it, but

00:17:15.690 --> 00:17:17.730
now that we're making you think about this, is

00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:19.789
there anything else like that that you think

00:17:19.789 --> 00:17:22.970
is important to have a successful partnership

00:17:22.970 --> 00:17:25.430
in marriage and that's professionally and personally?

00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:28.299
Yeah. I mean, I think that you know, you gotta

00:17:28.299 --> 00:17:29.980
communicate, right? You can always be better

00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:32.539
at communicating, but, you know, have to communicate,

00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:34.779
especially when it comes to what you're, you

00:17:34.779 --> 00:17:36.380
know, how you're feeling about your career and

00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:41.400
your goals. I think that you need to, you know,

00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.559
also... Guess you know like I said be positive

00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.460
and support one another but then you know also

00:17:47.460 --> 00:17:50.259
be there when things aren't going You know the

00:17:50.259 --> 00:17:51.940
way that you want to write to have someone there

00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:53.579
to kind of balance you out when maybe you're

00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:56.279
ready to give up or You're ready to try something

00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.019
different or you're ready. You know you're on

00:17:58.019 --> 00:18:00.359
the ledge I think you know doing that as well,

00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.279
and I think that you know Having you know mutual

00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:07.019
respect right like I respect her and her career

00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:08.859
goals, and I you know when she respects me and

00:18:08.859 --> 00:18:12.180
my career goals right Nick It depends on kind

00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:14.140
of where you are in life, right? Me being a talent

00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:16.680
acquisition, you know, I've worked with so many

00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.059
different types of individuals where, you know,

00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:21.759
different things are important. I think a lot

00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:23.799
of times people think, oh, someone will take

00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.000
this job for more money. Well, you know, as you

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.039
become older, as you know, right, different things

00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.019
become more important to you, right? Like I have

00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:32.079
a daughter is graduating, going to college, right?

00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:34.799
I have someone young and things are, you know,

00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:36.480
it's different, important levels. And I think

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.220
that being able to understand that with your

00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:42.109
partner is huge, right? Definitely. Sometimes

00:18:42.109 --> 00:18:44.210
you might have to take a step back, right? For

00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:46.089
the greater good, right? To be a good team player

00:18:46.089 --> 00:18:48.269
and that's okay. Absolutely. It's that balance

00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:49.849
for sure. Everybody can't be going a hundred

00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:52.109
miles per hour in different directions. Yep.

00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:55.230
I agree. So do you think there's still stereotypes

00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:57.890
out there, whether it's for women and or men

00:18:57.890 --> 00:19:00.170
just kind of like who's the breadwinner, who

00:19:00.170 --> 00:19:02.309
has the big career? I mean, do you feel that?

00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:04.750
Do you hear that? All the time, all the time,

00:19:04.910 --> 00:19:07.130
especially when we're dealing with, you know,

00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:10.220
let's say home repair outside salespeople where

00:19:10.220 --> 00:19:12.059
they want to talk with me and I'm like, hey,

00:19:12.140 --> 00:19:14.380
you need to talk with with Aaron, right? Because

00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:18.140
they may be in some, you know, older traditional

00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:21.339
or, you know, former ideology where like, hey,

00:19:21.339 --> 00:19:22.960
I got to talk to the man of the house, which,

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:25.039
you know, is absolutely fine. But it doesn't

00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.279
just need to be me. I don't have the final word.

00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:29.480
One of the things I think that Aaron and I do

00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.299
very well is that we try to, you know, mutually

00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:34.400
agree on things like now. It's definitely stuff

00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.660
that, you know, I will. Take a step back because

00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:39.640
she's better at that and then you know vice versa

00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:41.819
with me trying to lean into our strengths, right?

00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:46.099
But oh, yeah, absolutely. I think you know, I

00:19:46.099 --> 00:19:48.400
think women definitely get the stereotype of

00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.380
settlement right like oh, you know He's the man

00:19:50.380 --> 00:19:52.619
of the house or he's fixing and building everything

00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:56.039
which I am NOT right or you know the meaning

00:19:56.629 --> 00:19:59.569
Women has to do these certain things and cleaning

00:19:59.569 --> 00:20:02.269
and all this other stuff. And, you know, we try

00:20:02.269 --> 00:20:05.430
not to live by those rules, especially with children

00:20:05.430 --> 00:20:07.769
and living in a different world, right? Right.

00:20:07.930 --> 00:20:09.349
For sure. And when you're both working, it's

00:20:09.349 --> 00:20:11.589
really hard. You have to juggle and whatever

00:20:11.589 --> 00:20:13.710
you can outsource. Like I'm a big fan of outsourcing,

00:20:13.869 --> 00:20:16.970
whether it's when the kids were younger, the,

00:20:16.970 --> 00:20:18.849
you know, strong daycare or whatever it was.

00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:22.150
Oh, 100%. Right. Because you're paying for your

00:20:22.150 --> 00:20:24.410
time. I think that's what people don't actually

00:20:24.410 --> 00:20:26.089
understand. Cause that's the commodity. You can't

00:20:26.089 --> 00:20:29.619
get back. Right. Yeah. So what's something you

00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:32.279
think people misunderstand about being the partner

00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:36.039
of a strong, driven woman? The caveat for people

00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:37.660
who don't know you is you're also a strong, driven

00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:39.559
man, right? Yeah, I would say, yeah. That's a

00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:42.720
very interesting dynamic, that you both have

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.819
this drive. You're both strong. I wouldn't want

00:20:45.819 --> 00:20:49.339
to argue with either one of you on it. How does

00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:52.220
that work from a partnership? I mean, we definitely

00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:54.740
butt heads. I'd be lying to you if I say we didn't,

00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.440
especially over time. But I would say it's also

00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.490
what helps. us, right? It helps us become a partner,

00:21:00.569 --> 00:21:03.349
like we're competitive and, you know, we both

00:21:03.349 --> 00:21:06.170
have strong opinions and want to be heard. And,

00:21:06.230 --> 00:21:07.789
you know, it's definitely times where it gets

00:21:07.789 --> 00:21:10.869
me probably in more trouble. But I think the

00:21:10.869 --> 00:21:13.210
biggest thing, you know, when it comes to that

00:21:13.210 --> 00:21:15.130
is, you know, again, having that understanding

00:21:15.130 --> 00:21:17.470
of your partner and who they are and kind of

00:21:17.470 --> 00:21:20.150
what's important to them. And then you can kind

00:21:20.150 --> 00:21:23.250
of, you know, I would say adjust accordingly,

00:21:23.250 --> 00:21:25.690
so to speak. And when it comes to that, I think

00:21:25.690 --> 00:21:28.779
that Again communicating and talking about your

00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:30.400
goals and talking about things that are important

00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.670
to you, right? So it is no surprise, right? Like

00:21:34.670 --> 00:21:38.289
I don't come home with, you know, a new car without

00:21:38.289 --> 00:21:40.670
obviously consulting with my wife, right? We

00:21:40.670 --> 00:21:42.329
want to make the best decisions for our family.

00:21:42.329 --> 00:21:44.450
I think the biggest misconception that goes into

00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:46.410
that, especially when you dealing with someone

00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:49.410
who is, you know, in a higher position or successful

00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:51.670
is that they are a certain way, right? Like,

00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:54.269
oh, well, you know, if your wife is in the C

00:21:54.269 --> 00:21:56.410
suite, then, you know, she automatically means

00:21:56.410 --> 00:22:00.589
that she's hyper aggressive and no nonsense and

00:22:00.589 --> 00:22:03.609
hard nose and probably less sensitive. And, you

00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:04.990
know, and those things don't have to be true

00:22:04.990 --> 00:22:07.769
or vice versa. It's like, Oh, people will meet

00:22:07.769 --> 00:22:10.089
my wife and you think, Oh, well, Mike, we know

00:22:10.089 --> 00:22:12.710
that, you know, you're probably not in charge

00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:15.109
or, you know, she's running this or, you know,

00:22:15.210 --> 00:22:18.349
my wife's a black belt, right. And, and has been

00:22:18.349 --> 00:22:20.950
for a long time. And so I always, when I tell

00:22:20.950 --> 00:22:22.130
people that they're like, Oh, I know that she

00:22:22.130 --> 00:22:24.700
can kind of beat you up. Right? So you hear all

00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:26.880
types of things that come along with, you know,

00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.140
either, and it's the same as you have a husband

00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:31.140
who's in a, you know, a higher low position,

00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:34.480
perceived, um, and people are always going to

00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.299
assume certain things anyway. So I'm kind of

00:22:37.299 --> 00:22:40.619
used to that, right? I, I try not to let outside,

00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:44.579
uh, opinions, right, dictate who I am and what

00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:46.839
I want to do, especially within my house. Nice.

00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.380
our house. Oh yeah, good correction. I almost

00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:56.900
let that go. That's my daughter, right? She constantly

00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:59.470
is correcting me on my verbiage. Hey, so speaking

00:22:59.470 --> 00:23:01.329
of your daughter, let's talk about your kids.

00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:03.349
So first your daughter, who's we've just mentioned

00:23:03.349 --> 00:23:06.390
18 and graduating from high school heading off

00:23:06.390 --> 00:23:09.289
to college. So through these last, you know,

00:23:09.410 --> 00:23:13.329
17, 16 years, what have you been trying to instill

00:23:13.329 --> 00:23:15.809
in her or, you know, from what you're doing or

00:23:15.809 --> 00:23:17.730
what your wife's doing to be that example to

00:23:17.730 --> 00:23:21.390
help, you know, create this great path for her?

00:23:22.170 --> 00:23:23.990
You know, one thing is I'm always talking to

00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:26.490
her about effort, right? You can control your

00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:29.740
effort. Also, don't let anyone stop you from

00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:31.099
doing something you really want, right? Because

00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:33.599
we're in a world where you see so many different

00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.680
reflections or AI or social media of what this

00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:39.819
is and what that is and how you should and shouldn't

00:23:39.819 --> 00:23:42.220
be, right? Like, if you're passionate about something

00:23:42.220 --> 00:23:44.079
that's something you want to obtain, then you

00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.450
need to work hard at it, right? Everybody's talented,

00:23:47.589 --> 00:23:49.589
so to speak, right? But talent isn't enough,

00:23:49.750 --> 00:23:52.329
right? You'll have to persevere and work hard.

00:23:52.450 --> 00:23:54.410
I've always tried to kind of stress that to my

00:23:54.410 --> 00:23:58.710
daughter. Find your passion, but no matter what,

00:23:59.029 --> 00:24:01.509
always put full effort into it and understand

00:24:01.509 --> 00:24:05.009
it. you're the prize and you're the talent, right?

00:24:05.170 --> 00:24:07.250
So whether she's going to college, yeah, she's

00:24:07.250 --> 00:24:09.549
the talent, right? The school was lucky to have

00:24:09.549 --> 00:24:12.650
her, whether it's, you know, a special relationship

00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:14.750
or what have you. Those are things I've always

00:24:14.750 --> 00:24:16.910
tried to reinforce my daughter and for her to

00:24:16.910 --> 00:24:19.190
be herself. And if that's different than everyone

00:24:19.190 --> 00:24:21.829
else, then that's okay, because at some point,

00:24:22.109 --> 00:24:24.509
everyone was different and maybe got looked at

00:24:24.509 --> 00:24:27.170
a certain way, right? But that time, that stuff

00:24:27.170 --> 00:24:30.430
passes. That's very true. I mean, we don't want

00:24:30.430 --> 00:24:31.990
to think about her growing up and getting married.

00:24:32.029 --> 00:24:34.089
She's just getting to college, but down the road,

00:24:34.509 --> 00:24:37.430
let's say 10, 20 years, we'll extend it. But

00:24:37.430 --> 00:24:40.490
what do you hope that she looks for in that partner

00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:42.890
that she's learned from watching you and Aaron?

00:24:43.369 --> 00:24:45.750
I'd like to think that she can see that someone

00:24:45.750 --> 00:24:49.309
can be her authentic self and still be everything

00:24:49.309 --> 00:24:52.269
that's needed, whether it's a father or a husband.

00:24:52.529 --> 00:24:55.430
And she still can be herself and love for that.

00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.500
who she truly is and not who she's trying to

00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:03.359
dictate to society norms and who she should be

00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.619
and how she should act. So I think that's something

00:25:05.619 --> 00:25:08.980
that I hope that she finds in someone, right?

00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:12.819
I love that. That was so nice. So what's some

00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:15.440
advice you have for men who want to be a better

00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:20.710
partner to their wife, girlfriend? Oh gosh. I

00:25:20.710 --> 00:25:22.509
feel like I should have also asked the women

00:25:22.509 --> 00:25:26.049
this secretly, like unload the dishwasher and

00:25:26.049 --> 00:25:28.589
take out the garbage that we lost. Yeah. I literally

00:25:28.589 --> 00:25:31.710
can hear my wife's voice in the back of things

00:25:31.710 --> 00:25:34.710
that I can do to help her out and I try to be

00:25:34.710 --> 00:25:37.690
aware of. But I mean, honestly, I think the biggest

00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:41.089
advice that I can give is that to always try,

00:25:41.250 --> 00:25:43.650
right? You're going to fall down. You're going

00:25:43.650 --> 00:25:46.480
to fail. You're going to make mistakes. Keep

00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.519
trying, right? Try to get better, right? I always

00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.099
want to be a better father or, you know, a better

00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:54.119
husband and better at something that I'm doing.

00:25:54.579 --> 00:25:56.440
Especially when you get, you know, you're blessed

00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:59.220
with the opportunity to, you know, correct maybe

00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:02.420
certain mistakes or better explain yourself or

00:26:02.420 --> 00:26:04.420
your intentions, right? Because intentions versus

00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:07.140
impact are two different things all the time.

00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.660
So I think the biggest advice I gained is to,

00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:11.839
you know, not give up and keep trying, right?

00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.720
Right. No, that's a great point. And everybody

00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.519
messes up and we have days where we're not great

00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.519
husbands or wives or parents and that's life.

00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:23.519
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those days, moods and everything

00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.279
else. But one thing I will do is I have no problem

00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:28.539
apologizing, right? I apologize for my kids.

00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:30.940
I'm sorry if I made you feel this way. You know,

00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:32.799
this is my intent. Understand that everything

00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.920
that I'm doing is coming from a place of love

00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:37.579
and admiration. You are the best thing that's

00:26:37.579 --> 00:26:41.319
ever happened to me. And you mean the most to

00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:43.140
me, right? But I'm not perfect, right? Being

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.900
a parent doesn't come with a manual. Any other

00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:48.160
parting words, thoughts or advice as we wrap

00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.720
up? I would say, you know, overall, I think what

00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.900
we can do better is, you know, forgive and be

00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:58.079
able to move on. Right. I think that we got to

00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:00.299
keep the main things the main things. Right.

00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:04.680
And is everything else that serious and that

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.940
is that important to the grand scheme of things?

00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.339
Right. We only hear what feels like a short time.

00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:14.279
Try to keep the main thing, the main thing, and

00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:16.640
let other stuff go. It's okay. You don't have

00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:19.799
to forget, but you can forgive and act accordingly.

00:27:20.420 --> 00:27:22.970
Well, great. Thank you. Thank you so much for

00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:25.470
having me. I appreciate it. Maurice Knight. Welcome

00:27:25.470 --> 00:27:28.029
to Loud and Lifted. Thank you so much for being

00:27:28.029 --> 00:27:30.930
here. Today, we're going to talk about men and

00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:32.670
the support that you guys have for the women

00:27:32.670 --> 00:27:35.230
in your life. So let's start with talking about

00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:37.329
your wife. Tell me about Leslie and what she

00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:40.230
does professionally. My wife Leslie's been in

00:27:40.230 --> 00:27:42.910
the Air Force for I think like 18 or 19 years

00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:45.940
now. Currently, she works for the Department

00:27:45.940 --> 00:27:50.019
of Defense, Mortuary Affairs. Prior to that,

00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:53.079
and then coming up here soon, she'll be back

00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:55.920
in her former position as Inspector General.

00:27:56.700 --> 00:27:58.339
That's awesome. And you know, obviously a lot

00:27:58.339 --> 00:28:00.599
of what we talk about in this podcast is professional,

00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.079
you know, small business owners or in big corporate

00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:05.819
organizations. And you guys live in this whole

00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:08.940
different world being in the military and you

00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:12.380
as well, also having a military career. Yeah,

00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:14.859
yeah, definitely. One of us had to, so I recently

00:28:14.859 --> 00:28:17.500
retired because one of us had to call it quits

00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:20.119
so we can get some normalcy around the house.

00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:22.859
Yeah. So let's talk about that first actually.

00:28:22.940 --> 00:28:25.200
So you both have spent your entire career in

00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.700
the military with crazy schedules and it felt

00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:29.619
like one of you was deployed, what, like every

00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:32.319
other year. You had small kids. Like, how have

00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.099
you guys balanced both having these really successful

00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:39.119
military careers and your kids? So once we both

00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.779
got to the leadership level, I had just gotten

00:28:41.779 --> 00:28:46.900
back from Iraq and we decided, you know, we both

00:28:46.900 --> 00:28:50.619
can't have crazy successful careers and do the

00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:52.400
things we want to do professionally at the same

00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.119
time. So we made an agreement that every other

00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.839
assignment, one of us would take that key assignment

00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:00.460
and the other one would kind of take a background

00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:04.289
role. And so we did that for a while until it

00:29:04.289 --> 00:29:06.589
didn't work. So it worked for a little bit. But

00:29:06.589 --> 00:29:09.529
once you reach certain senior levels in the military,

00:29:09.890 --> 00:29:12.789
you don't have a choice but take difficult assignments.

00:29:13.390 --> 00:29:16.450
So as things progressed, we tried our best to

00:29:16.450 --> 00:29:19.009
do that. And then we just worked the flexibility

00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:21.690
around each other's schedules. So fortunately,

00:29:22.150 --> 00:29:25.109
we both worked for some amazing supervisors that

00:29:25.109 --> 00:29:28.609
really did put family first and understood we're

00:29:28.609 --> 00:29:33.180
only as good. at work as we are at home. So there

00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:36.059
was a lot of exceptions for us throughout the

00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:39.859
time and different things, but we all still continue

00:29:39.859 --> 00:29:41.960
to work. You know, sometimes we had to, if she

00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.339
was gone, I'd work and then pick up the kids

00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:47.720
and then come home and work some more until I

00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.660
was tired or vice versa. You know, she would

00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:51.740
do the same thing. So if I was deployed, she'd

00:29:51.740 --> 00:29:53.759
have to leave work early, pick up the kids, and

00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:55.559
then she'd get home and kind of get back on and

00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:58.059
finish up some things she didn't get to throughout

00:29:58.059 --> 00:30:01.690
the day. So when she was deployed, especially,

00:30:02.710 --> 00:30:04.190
did you ever sit back and be like, shoot, why

00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:08.549
did I agree to this? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:08.950 --> 00:30:11.450
You know, there's a lot of days I'd say. I wish

00:30:11.450 --> 00:30:14.190
she would get out or what are we doing here?

00:30:14.269 --> 00:30:16.230
I don't know how to do any of this. But I also

00:30:16.230 --> 00:30:18.650
had a really good support network. You know,

00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:21.069
my mom would come down here. She owned the hour

00:30:21.069 --> 00:30:22.670
and a half away. So she'd come down and help.

00:30:22.930 --> 00:30:24.650
A lot of friends would pick up the kids and take

00:30:24.650 --> 00:30:27.769
them places. I even had supervisors pick up my

00:30:27.769 --> 00:30:30.930
kids and take them places. So just to give me

00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:34.109
a break and different time off and then. So you've

00:30:34.109 --> 00:30:36.539
almost given that. bigger is normal than sacrifice

00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:38.579
people do to support their wives is, you know,

00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:40.859
you had to make changes to your career path.

00:30:41.059 --> 00:30:45.400
And then also you had to be a single dad. Yeah.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.420
So besides that, which is like one of the ultimate

00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:50.859
things, how else have you supported Leslie through

00:30:50.859 --> 00:30:53.920
the years? You know, I always say I'm her biggest

00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:57.099
cheerleader and it really is a team effort and

00:30:57.099 --> 00:30:59.240
selfishly, the better she does, the better we

00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.119
do. So I know some people struggle with that

00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.649
because there are still traditional roles. where

00:31:05.649 --> 00:31:09.650
the wife is expected to be around the house and

00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:12.809
keep things sane there. And the husband's expected

00:31:12.809 --> 00:31:14.769
to go to work. But I think a lot of that's changed

00:31:14.769 --> 00:31:17.569
throughout the years. And some marriages still

00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:20.049
struggle with that, you know. It's always a team

00:31:20.049 --> 00:31:23.089
effort and whatever she does and whatever she

00:31:23.089 --> 00:31:26.029
excels in, you know, our family benefits from

00:31:26.029 --> 00:31:29.430
it. So are you signing up for all housework and

00:31:29.430 --> 00:31:31.549
chores and making dinner? Like, is that how this

00:31:31.549 --> 00:31:35.319
goes now? No, I still don't like the full laundry.

00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:38.099
At this point, you know what each person brings,

00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.420
what strengths they bring to the table. So how

00:31:41.420 --> 00:31:43.480
do you serve as that cheerleader? How do you

00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:46.839
have that backbone support for her through the

00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.480
years of her career? So in the military, I was

00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:51.900
enlisted. I retired as a first sergeant. She's

00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:55.079
an officer. She's a major. So I'm used to being

00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.819
attached to an officer as their advisor, as a

00:31:58.819 --> 00:32:02.509
senior NCO or senior enlisted. One of the things

00:32:02.509 --> 00:32:06.190
that I've done, whether she likes it or not,

00:32:06.569 --> 00:32:10.210
is I try to be a coach because not everyone has

00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:12.650
a great advisor attached to them. So when we

00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:15.650
talk about things at home, I try to advise based

00:32:15.650 --> 00:32:18.890
off my experience as a senior leader and things

00:32:18.890 --> 00:32:23.029
along those lines. I 100 % help her a lot of

00:32:23.029 --> 00:32:25.190
things like making decisions on what the next

00:32:25.190 --> 00:32:27.250
assignment is. And she'll say, what do you think

00:32:27.250 --> 00:32:29.809
about this? Anything that's out there that's

00:32:29.809 --> 00:32:33.470
going to... to improve her ability to do her

00:32:33.470 --> 00:32:36.430
job and advance her career, I'm all over doing

00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:39.029
it. If it means she's got to be reassigned for

00:32:39.029 --> 00:32:40.529
a couple of years, you know it is what it is.

00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:42.990
It only benefits us in the long run. So what's

00:32:42.990 --> 00:32:45.589
one moment you're most proud of in her career

00:32:45.589 --> 00:32:48.450
and watching her succeed? So she probably killed

00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:50.829
me for telling you this story. I got back from

00:32:50.829 --> 00:32:54.049
Afghanistan and we were talking and she wanted

00:32:54.049 --> 00:32:58.380
to go from enlisted to being an officer. You

00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:59.940
know to do that you got to go through a school

00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:04.140
so we had MJ and six months after we had MJ she

00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:05.599
had to go to this school and she had to take

00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.740
a physical fitness test and Sit -ups after having

00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:12.980
a baby is not the simplest thing to do and she

00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:16.240
got there and You know she struggled with the

00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.140
sit -ups and didn't pass when she got there and

00:33:18.140 --> 00:33:20.220
at most schools They will send you home if you

00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:23.980
don't pass they allowed her to stay and she came

00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:27.089
out and She had to take her final one right before

00:33:27.089 --> 00:33:29.910
graduation to become an officer. And I said,

00:33:29.970 --> 00:33:31.769
I'm getting on a plane. I'm flying down there.

00:33:32.029 --> 00:33:34.569
I'm going to do this PT test with you. And I

00:33:34.569 --> 00:33:36.589
can't get the flight fast enough down there.

00:33:37.069 --> 00:33:39.690
And I'm in the air while she's taking the test.

00:33:39.809 --> 00:33:41.250
And when she gets done, she texts me and she

00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:45.450
says, hey, I passed the entire class. Did the

00:33:45.450 --> 00:33:46.809
sit -ups with her, ran with her. She was the

00:33:46.809 --> 00:33:48.690
only one taking it, but they all came out and

00:33:48.690 --> 00:33:51.910
did it with her. And that's pretty big to accomplish

00:33:51.910 --> 00:33:54.150
something like that, you know, six to eight months

00:33:54.150 --> 00:33:57.990
after having a child. So that allowed her to

00:33:57.990 --> 00:34:00.450
become an officer and it's a big step, you know?

00:34:00.630 --> 00:34:03.529
And plus, you know, a lot of these soldiers and

00:34:03.529 --> 00:34:06.170
airmen, they're doing this at 18 to 20 years

00:34:06.170 --> 00:34:07.690
old. You know, she's doing this after having

00:34:07.690 --> 00:34:10.789
two kids. Right. I think it's a big step what

00:34:10.789 --> 00:34:12.750
resilience it shows, you know, she has a commitment

00:34:12.750 --> 00:34:16.829
to get it done and she, you know, she chased

00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:19.829
after what she wanted and she got it. So we also

00:34:19.829 --> 00:34:22.130
have this thing we do when you commission as

00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:24.909
an officer, you do a first salute. So you have

00:34:24.909 --> 00:34:27.210
to salute someone that's enlisted. So I did her

00:34:27.210 --> 00:34:29.590
first salute as well. So I still have that. There's

00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:32.130
a coin they give you. It's like a silver dollar.

00:34:32.170 --> 00:34:35.570
So I still keep that. in my wallet. I love that.

00:34:35.650 --> 00:34:37.389
All right. Let's switch gears a little bit. Let's

00:34:37.389 --> 00:34:40.010
talk about your kids. So you're raising teenagers.

00:34:40.170 --> 00:34:42.530
You have a, oh my gosh, soon to be senior in

00:34:42.530 --> 00:34:45.210
a high school and a sophomore girl, and then

00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:47.449
a son who's going to be a sophomore in high school.

00:34:47.989 --> 00:34:51.570
So how do you guys try to be good examples or

00:34:51.570 --> 00:34:53.329
role models to, you know, you have two different

00:34:53.329 --> 00:34:54.510
versions, right? Like you're trying to raise

00:34:54.510 --> 00:34:56.909
a strong girl, woman. You're trying to raise

00:34:56.909 --> 00:34:59.369
your son to be, you know, a great future husband.

00:34:59.409 --> 00:35:01.690
Like how do you guys think about that intentionally

00:35:01.690 --> 00:35:04.110
when you both have these, you're both great role

00:35:04.110 --> 00:35:06.309
models. So how do you like activate that to make

00:35:06.309 --> 00:35:09.110
sure you're raising your kids to be like you

00:35:09.110 --> 00:35:11.530
guys? You know, honestly, we don't think we're

00:35:11.530 --> 00:35:13.230
doing a great job. It's not a normal family.

00:35:13.309 --> 00:35:15.389
You know, there's a lot of families that are

00:35:15.389 --> 00:35:17.849
single parents. And, you know, I kind of believe

00:35:17.849 --> 00:35:20.050
when you grow up in that single parent home I

00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:22.429
did for a while, you know, that's your expectation

00:35:22.429 --> 00:35:24.449
is right there. You depend on your mom or your

00:35:24.449 --> 00:35:27.280
dad. And it doesn't change that stage you're

00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.139
seeing unless that parent gets married somewhere.

00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:33.460
With our kids, they had the constant coming and

00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:36.059
going of one parent home, another parent leaving.

00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:39.639
And to me, looking at them and watching them,

00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.519
I think that's a tougher, that's been a tougher

00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.219
transition because there is no continuity. you

00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:48.179
might have mom for this time and then you might

00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:50.780
have dad for this time. And mom has a different

00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:53.599
standard and dad has a different standard. So

00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:55.739
it's tough on the kids to get to that point.

00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.639
And I think for a while they really struggled

00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:02.460
with it. Because like I said, sometimes work

00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:05.099
has to come home with you. Is it the right answer?

00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:08.480
It's absolutely not the right answer, but we're

00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.500
fully invested in. when you're a leader, you

00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:13.699
know, it just doesn't stop. And it's unfortunate,

00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:15.500
but it just doesn't stop. You have you have people

00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:17.400
that you're responsible for. So you have to take

00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.980
care of them regardless of the time. And, you

00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:23.199
know, I think our kids struggle a lot with phone

00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:26.579
calls late at night, the different changes. So

00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:28.800
we've had to try to put some things in a place

00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:34.039
to minimize the impact to them. But, you know,

00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:37.420
it's it's been a challenge. But I also having

00:36:37.420 --> 00:36:41.989
kids that are resilient really helps. Our kids

00:36:41.989 --> 00:36:46.650
don't complain a lot. They have learned to, unfortunately

00:36:46.650 --> 00:36:49.349
or fortunately, they have learned to do a lot

00:36:49.349 --> 00:36:52.289
of things on their own. So they've learned to

00:36:52.289 --> 00:36:55.349
take care of some things. If mom was gone, Maya

00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:57.710
would really help with MJ with his homework and

00:36:57.710 --> 00:37:00.389
do different things along those lines. Yeah,

00:37:00.389 --> 00:37:02.730
I was gonna say, I mean, obviously it's not a

00:37:02.730 --> 00:37:04.690
great situation for your kids while you're going

00:37:04.690 --> 00:37:07.269
through it, but they're both so independent and

00:37:07.269 --> 00:37:09.949
mature and, you know, help to build their confidence

00:37:09.949 --> 00:37:12.150
that they can do this. So it probably doesn't

00:37:12.150 --> 00:37:13.809
feel good while you're going through it. Of course,

00:37:13.869 --> 00:37:15.969
nobody wants their parent to go away for months

00:37:15.969 --> 00:37:17.309
and be worried about where they are and what

00:37:17.309 --> 00:37:19.289
they're doing. You know, I think seeing the other

00:37:19.289 --> 00:37:21.889
side of like, hey, I was able to pull this off

00:37:21.889 --> 00:37:24.610
when mom or dad was away. You know, we said to

00:37:24.610 --> 00:37:27.329
the kids, you know, we've got to take a day at

00:37:27.329 --> 00:37:29.619
a time. It's a long game. Well, really, what

00:37:29.619 --> 00:37:32.440
the long game was that they now, they didn't

00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:35.159
understand when they were younger, they now understand

00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.940
why we did those things. So fortunately, our

00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:41.219
kids are gonna go to college 100 % tuition free

00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:44.380
to any college they work in the nation. And you

00:37:44.380 --> 00:37:46.460
know, Maya, I think Maya struggled a little bit

00:37:46.460 --> 00:37:49.079
more than MJ. She's more vocal than MJ with some

00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:50.800
of this stuff. So she struggled a little bit

00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.599
more for years. And then about last year, it

00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:56.760
really clicked. And then this year it starts,

00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:59.239
it's really we've noticed that change with her

00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.579
as she's talking about college and picking a

00:38:01.579 --> 00:38:03.420
place she wants to go and talking with friends.

00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:05.880
She doesn't have to take loans. We don't have

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.900
to take loans. She doesn't have to do a lot of

00:38:07.900 --> 00:38:09.880
things. She's not going to be, she's not going

00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:13.039
to graduate with any debt at all unless she does

00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:14.900
something crazy and takes a loan. But, you know,

00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:16.500
she shouldn't even have to do that because she

00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:19.659
has a stipend to stay in school as well. So I

00:38:19.659 --> 00:38:22.619
think the long run might have been tough, you

00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:24.900
know, coming through. But in the long run, it

00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:28.289
really benefits the kids overall. Yeah, well,

00:38:28.349 --> 00:38:30.050
that's great. And yeah, you guys deserve that.

00:38:30.130 --> 00:38:32.889
You made some major sacrifices through the last

00:38:32.889 --> 00:38:37.250
20 -some years. So that's pretty cool. So what

00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:39.869
is advice that you would have for other men who

00:38:39.869 --> 00:38:42.550
want to be more supportive of their spouses?

00:38:43.710 --> 00:38:46.630
You know, I think it's a challenge for multiple

00:38:46.630 --> 00:38:50.730
things. You know, sometimes guys are our hardest

00:38:50.730 --> 00:38:53.510
critics. You know, we look at other guys and

00:38:53.510 --> 00:38:55.650
they say just girls are caddy. Now, guys are

00:38:55.650 --> 00:38:59.110
caddy too, especially husbands. So breaking news.

00:39:00.210 --> 00:39:03.429
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can be caddy too, but we

00:39:03.429 --> 00:39:05.909
can also be competitive. So sometimes it's hard

00:39:05.909 --> 00:39:10.690
to watch, you know, certain things and want to

00:39:10.690 --> 00:39:15.269
say something. But I would I would say. the spouses

00:39:15.269 --> 00:39:17.869
the wife is no different than you know the guy

00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:20.510
so like you got to kind of drop your pride and

00:39:20.510 --> 00:39:23.269
Be cool with certain things and understand it

00:39:23.269 --> 00:39:25.710
really is a team effort. No, it's not in even

00:39:25.710 --> 00:39:27.309
though you're married It's not an individual

00:39:27.309 --> 00:39:31.030
effort, you know, it's more of I think it's more

00:39:31.030 --> 00:39:33.960
work being home full -time and trying to handle

00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.980
kids and doing everything else than going to

00:39:35.980 --> 00:39:38.500
work. I wouldn't want to be a full -time house

00:39:38.500 --> 00:39:41.699
husband with kids at all, ever. So I would say,

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:43.659
you know what? You got to drop the pride and

00:39:43.659 --> 00:39:47.500
understand the true benefits and the goals where

00:39:47.500 --> 00:39:49.739
you're trying to get to with your family. If

00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:51.539
you want to stay in the same spot, you're in.

00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.380
And I know I have friends that work two jobs.

00:39:55.940 --> 00:39:59.099
And just so their spouse can stay home and take

00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:00.659
care of the house because it was a traditional

00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:02.699
role, I think that's ridiculous. I think it's

00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:05.199
absolutely ridiculous. Things have changed so

00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:09.519
much over time. Dude, just drop the pride. Your

00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:13.119
spouse is, your wife is killing this career.

00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:15.199
Support her, get behind her, because it only

00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.340
benefits you. Absolutely. That's great advice.

00:40:18.460 --> 00:40:20.539
Thank you so much for being part of OutLifted

00:40:20.539 --> 00:40:22.960
and thank you so much for being supportive to

00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:25.219
the women in your life. To the men we spotlighted

00:40:25.219 --> 00:40:27.780
today and to the many more like them, thank you.

00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:30.059
Thank you for being steady when the storms roll

00:40:30.059 --> 00:40:32.699
in, for making room when the dreams get big,

00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:35.159
and for helping raise the next generation with

00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:39.179
grit, grace, and a whole lot of love. Never underestimate

00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:42.500
the power that support can be. Let's keep talking

00:40:42.500 --> 00:40:45.000
about it, let's keep celebrating it, and let's

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.199
keep getting loud and lifted for the people who

00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.960
make it all possible. Happy Father's Day, and

00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:52.099
thank you to all the dads out there who are supporting

00:40:52.099 --> 00:40:53.219
the women in their lives.