How to Make a Career Pivot Without Losing Yourself

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Pivoting sounds exciting when you say it after

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the fact. You left the job, started the business,

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changed industries, finally went after that thing

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you've been thinking about for years. But while

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you're actually living it, it can feel messy,

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uncertain, and honestly, a little terrifying.

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I know firsthand, over the past year and a half,

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I've experienced the highs of building something

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new in the moments when I've questioned whether

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I should just throw in the towel and go find

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another corporate job. In this episode, I'm talking

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with Trish Barber, author of Why Women Pivot,

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about what it really takes to make a change,

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whether the pivot is your choice or one you never

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saw coming. We talk about rebuilding your identity

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beyond the title, discovering what actually energizes

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you, owning your story, and surrounding yourself

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with the people who will challenge, encourage,

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and guide you through what comes next. Because

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a pivot isn't just one brave decision. It's a

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process. And you do not have to have every part

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of it figured out. before you begin. Welcome

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to loud and lifted Trish. Thank you so much for

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being here. Thank you for having me. I'm super

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excited about this. Yeah, so this is a very fun

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topic to talk about. And maybe we glamorize the

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ideas of pivoting, right? But there's a lot that

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goes into it, so much that you've literally written

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a book. about this, which I love so much. So

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we're going to get into that pivoting isn't always

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sunshine and roses and this glamorous thing,

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right? There's a lot of emotional and mental

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pieces that go through this. But before we get

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into that part, the messy part, let's start at

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the very beginning. Why do women pivot and why

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does it seem like we're talking about this so

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much more right now? Well, COVID kind of was

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a catalyst for a lot of a lot of pivots. But

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I mean, the reality is, is that we're the ones

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who have children. We're the ones who take care

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of our families often. We're the ones who carry

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the mental load associated with managing families.

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And so the reality is, is that that stuff takes

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its toll and opportunities are either made available

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for women that meet their circumstances and their

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needs or they're not. And there is just a lot

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of reason why women have to and frankly conditions

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associated with women who are making pivots.

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If you're leaving on maternity leave, you're

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starting and stopping your career for a temporary

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period of time. And the reality of you coming

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back, there are consequences associated with

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that. And as much as we have come a long way,

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and there are a lot of great reasons why companies

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are doing that so much better than they used

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to, there are penalties that women pay for these

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pauses that we have to make. And so we're pivoting

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so that we can find the opportunities we're looking

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for given the circumstances that we're dealing

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with. You know, it's funny, I'm showing my age

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when I say this, but, you know, the whole having

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babies, that was 18, 15 years ago for me, and

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you're right, when I go back to that time of

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how your priorities shift and how you're managing

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work and the whole juggling. And at that time,

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I'm being like, I knew I always wanted to work.

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I knew that was my thing to do, but I never thought

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that there was other opportunities back then,

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right? Like, and it's funny how 10, 15 years,

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women are starting to realize like, wait, I don't

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have to deal with this. I don't have to deal

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with this eight to five grind and the constant

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corporate piece of it. So it's funny how I've

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been so focused on that. I'm in my 40s. You know,

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what does pivoting look like for me now? And

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we'll get into that a little bit, but you're

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right. That first sort of flag that people start

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to raise is when they have babies. Yep. Yeah,

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and many of us are caring for elderly parents

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or, you know, they're just circumstances. And

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women, I think there's enough research out there

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to suggest that women are carrying a lot of the

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mental load that goes along with that. And so

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I don't know about you, but a lot of the women

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that I know don't want to miss out on some of

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those things. So as much as they understand that

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there may be penalties associated with it, you

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take that and you make changes accordingly. And

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why do you think that is? And maybe, again, it's

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my age that it seems like women are just less

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tolerant of not being able to have that ability

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to focus on what they think is most important.

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So is it just me and my age of feeling like women

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in their 40s are sort of like, you know what?

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I'm leaving corporate. I'm leaving my government

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job or whatever it is. And I'm going to pivot.

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So I don't know if you're seeing that or that's

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just the little world I'm living in currently.

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No. It's funny because I'm probably, my kids

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are 30, 28, and 23. And so I'm definitely at

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the further end of the spectrum. And I'm even

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pivoting now, finding myself kind of asking a

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lot of questions about, well, what do I want

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to do next? Because my kids are having children.

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I want to see my grandbabies. But I still want

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to engage in my career. And so I don't think

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the good news bad news ladies is that it doesn't

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end. It kind of never ends, but that just means

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that I think we all get better at it as we go

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too. That's such a great point. It's not like

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you had to pivot when you had kids or it has

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to be, let's call it middle career, but it can

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be at any point, even if you're towards retirement

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age or maybe if you are retiring, there's still

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that opportunity to pivot. There's not like a

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age or a time limit on it. That's so true. I

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love that. Besides the pivot of, hey, I decided

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I'm fed up with this, I don't want to be in this

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situation, what about the other one when all

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of a sudden, surprise, our company downsizes,

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we're let go and we're sitting there being like,

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holy shit, what are we doing next? Yeah. I have

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been on both ends of that spectrum. I've been

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part of companies that had to make some of those

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hard decisions and then I've also been you know,

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one of the people who was impacted by that. And

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that is the current reality. I mean, that is

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where we all are now. So I think that and frankly,

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I live outside of Washington, D .C. and the current

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market around here is there's a lot of people

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out of work who were government employees and

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are now out of work and are having to rethink

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their career and having you know, government

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experience and translating that into private

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sector experience is really challenging. As much

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as we say it's an opportunity, I know that sounds

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trite to the people that are out there looking,

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but the reality is is that it is an opportunity

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and that inflection or those self -discovery

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questions that once you go through that emotional

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cycle, which is real, right? That whole emotional

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cycle that happens once you are impacted by a

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downsizing. then you get to ask yourself some

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self -discovery questions that help you really

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think about what you want to change and what

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opportunities you want to take advantage of.

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And some of those discovery questions have to

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do with things like what energizes you and what

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drains you and what kinds of things have people...

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said to you or asked for your help with in the

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past, what do you receive compliments about from

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other people like, oh, you're so organized or

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oh, you're so good at conveying information or

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whatever that is, like, you know, synthesizing

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at taking inventory on a lot of that stuff and

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synthesizing it and then figuring out where where

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to take it from there helps you craft a thing

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that looks more like more of what energizes you,

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less of what drains you. And it's a process and

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it's hard and it's emotional, but it's a good,

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you come out the other end, I think a little

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better for it. No, that's so important. And that's

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the beginning of this roadmap, right? If you

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have to pivot by force or by choice, In the beginning,

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especially if it's by choice, you're like, yeah,

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let's go. This is exciting. This is something

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new. But you have to prepare for it. And I love

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that idea of having that discovery conversation

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with yourself. And I mean, do you write this

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stuff down? This doesn't have to be a whiteboard

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session, right? But how do you make sure you're

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being honest and fair with yourself? Because

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a lot of times we want to minimize, especially

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if this was a forced pivot, right? You're feeling

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down. You're feeling like you aren't able to

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contribute or whatever. So how do you make sure

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that you really have that honest conversation?

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And do we talk to other people too? Like, how

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do we just make sure that discovery is really

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important? Yeah, I think networking is such an

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important part of this. And I, as someone who

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pivoted from the private sector into government

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adjacent client work, I had to learn how to talk

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to those kinds of people and I needed to learn

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how to be in the spaces where those kinds of

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people were and so networking became a big part

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of it for me and there was a whole vocabulary

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that comes with getting involved in a new industry

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or in a new sector and so doing some discovery

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as an entrepreneur, you know, this is very much

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an entrepreneurial principle that applies here,

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is that you're constantly doing customer discovery

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and talking to customers to find out what problem

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they're having so that you can think of how to

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solve the problem. It's the same thing when you're

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going through this process of asking yourself

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or asking people in that industry questions about

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where opportunities are, what struggles are top

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of mind, what are priorities in that particular

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industry, so that you know where you can potentially

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contribute. So you're taking that list that you,

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the self -discovery list that you created and

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comparing it to the list or the things you're

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learning and having discovery conversations,

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and you're finding where those intersection points

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may be and where you may be able to have. Oh,

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okay. That makes sense. And it's so funny as

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a background as a marketing person, I feel like

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this is like a product launch, right? Like it's

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knowing who you are, what you're good at, the

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strengths of the brand, which is yourself, knowing

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what the customer or the industry expectations

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is and matching that. So I think a lot of people,

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even if you're not marketing, you can relate

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to that when you launch something new at your

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company is making sure that matches. And it's

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doing that for yourself, which is kind of like,

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Oh, wait, that makes sense. Well, that whole

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topic of personal branding is so top of mind

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right now. And that means so many different things

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to so many different people. A lot of people

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think it means I have to be posting on social

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media all the time. But the reality is that,

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and this is where I'll show my age, it used to

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be you didn't have a personal brand. You had

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a company brand and you were, you know, toeing

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the company brand line now that we're all sort

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of leashed to develop our own personal brand,

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everyone's really confused about how to do that

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and what that really means. I think if I were

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to give anyone advice about that, what I would

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say is that think about the things that you want

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to convey about what you're doing, what you're

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thinking about, what you find important. And

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anything that you would post or get involved

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in should align with those values. And so any

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social media, if you choose to do it, great.

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If you don't choose to do it, great. But the

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places you show up to network should align. The

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places that you choose to or the kinds of social

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media posts that you do should align. The kinds

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of things you're reading should align because

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then you'll be in a much better position to be

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able to talk about them. That's great advice.

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Whether you're looking for a job this week or

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maybe it's years down the road, but just building

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that brand for yourself is so important. You're

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so right. Many of us get connected to our company

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and that we think is our brand or our title.

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You get really fixated on a title. I felt like

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I was going to have this identity crisis when

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I left a CEO job that it was very visible. I'm

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like, well, now what? I don't have the title

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or the company association. You learn what was

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transactional and what's real but you start to

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build on like what already existed that like

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no You're a person people care about other people

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but it was getting really intentional like, okay,

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who am I? What am I doing to your point? Like

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what's the need out there? And you know my pivot

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the last year and a half has been a lot of trial

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and error, right? Like it's not like I decided

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30 days into it. Here's my plan. Here's what

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I'm doing. Let's go It's been this up -and -down

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roller coaster of sometimes I'm like, whoa, this

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is amazing other days. I'm like Oh, my God, maybe

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I should go get a full -time corporate job, right?

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Like, it's not perfect. Yeah, no. And, you know,

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you're raising sort of the whole reason or one

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of the reasons why I decided I wanted to write

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this book is that it's never perfect, right?

00:13:31.649 --> 00:13:37.450
Like, I often sort of… my own worst critic, right?

00:13:37.649 --> 00:13:41.470
So you're inclined to find out or figure out

00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:43.629
all the reasons why this didn't work the way

00:13:43.629 --> 00:13:45.870
you wanted it to work. But the reality is, is

00:13:45.870 --> 00:13:49.490
that trial and error and doing a little bit of

00:13:49.490 --> 00:13:52.450
exploration is all part of it and giving yourself

00:13:52.450 --> 00:13:55.730
grace as part of that is all part of it too.

00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:58.210
So what is part of that journey? We're kind of

00:13:58.210 --> 00:13:59.710
touching on that. We make the decision, you're

00:13:59.710 --> 00:14:01.490
pivoting, you're going to become an entrepreneur,

00:14:01.570 --> 00:14:03.789
you're going to do your own thing. And then we've

00:14:03.789 --> 00:14:06.409
done the discovery, we're talking turnout, we're

00:14:06.409 --> 00:14:08.750
building that out and what the need is out there.

00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:12.730
But then what do we do? So I am in Virginia,

00:14:13.029 --> 00:14:16.350
and there's a whole entrepreneur ecosystem in

00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:18.269
the state of Virginia. But regardless of whether

00:14:18.269 --> 00:14:20.830
you're in Virginia or not, there's a whole entrepreneur

00:14:20.830 --> 00:14:23.649
ecosystem in whatever state you're in. Some of

00:14:23.649 --> 00:14:26.549
it is more robust in some places than others.

00:14:26.610 --> 00:14:30.870
But if entrepreneurship is a goal, I think, you

00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:33.909
know, trying to understand and identify, there's

00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:36.750
sort of five big things that you have to think

00:14:36.750 --> 00:14:40.269
about. There's validating a market. There's creating

00:14:40.269 --> 00:14:43.909
a team, there's creating an MVP or a minimum

00:14:43.909 --> 00:14:49.789
viable product, there's finding partners or funding

00:14:49.789 --> 00:14:52.909
opportunities, and then there's developing a

00:14:52.909 --> 00:14:55.710
pipeline and traction. So all of those things

00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:59.120
are part of the journey. And part of the stuff

00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.080
that we all have to think about if we're going

00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.860
to be entrepreneurs, you go through those processes

00:15:03.860 --> 00:15:07.480
and the entrepreneur ecosystem in your state

00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.200
will most likely the Small Business Development

00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.159
Association is usually the federal organization

00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.960
that funds some of the state level stuff. So

00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:21.120
I would start with the SBDC and then look for

00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.659
those opportunities in your state. And they're

00:15:23.659 --> 00:15:26.539
often free programs that you can take advantage

00:15:26.539 --> 00:15:29.269
of. Interesting. That's great. Well, and I was

00:15:29.269 --> 00:15:31.649
thinking, too, when we were talking a point or

00:15:31.649 --> 00:15:34.610
two earlier about how, even if you're in a corporate

00:15:34.610 --> 00:15:36.889
job, government, whatever it is, and we all have

00:15:36.889 --> 00:15:39.230
those seasons of the good and the bad, sometimes

00:15:39.230 --> 00:15:40.690
you love your job, some days you come home and

00:15:40.690 --> 00:15:43.970
you're like, why am I doing this? So how, before

00:15:43.970 --> 00:15:45.889
we do make that leap, I'll take a step back,

00:15:45.909 --> 00:15:47.669
how do we know, like, look, this isn't just a

00:15:47.669 --> 00:15:50.129
season, like, how do we know that we really need

00:15:50.129 --> 00:15:55.750
a pivot? You know, I think you know in your heart,

00:15:55.889 --> 00:15:59.809
maybe before you even admit it out loud to yourself,

00:16:00.110 --> 00:16:02.850
you probably kind of know that something doesn't

00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:07.450
feel right. Something is not lining up for me

00:16:07.450 --> 00:16:10.309
now. I shouldn't have to work this hard or these

00:16:10.309 --> 00:16:14.509
physical symptoms I'm feeling shouldn't be there.

00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:18.289
Or I talked to a woman at one point who was having

00:16:18.289 --> 00:16:23.720
a lot of issues. literally vomiting at some points

00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:26.240
during the day because she was so stressed out

00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.059
by trying to juggle it all. So, I mean, regardless

00:16:29.059 --> 00:16:31.179
of what your symptoms, you kind of know in your

00:16:31.179 --> 00:16:34.759
heart that that there's something, an itch that

00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.299
you kind of need to scratch. And I think at some

00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:41.639
point something pushes. pushes you over the edge,

00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.840
whether it's, okay, I am definitely not making

00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.659
enough money, or I am definitely missing too

00:16:49.659 --> 00:16:52.600
much time with my kids, or I am definitely not

00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.860
getting the opportunities that I'm seeking. That's

00:16:56.860 --> 00:17:00.059
when you kind of know it's time to make, but

00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:03.360
the point you made before, Betsy, I really want

00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.380
to come back to, and that was the one of it takes

00:17:06.380 --> 00:17:10.079
some time to make this all happen. And you're

00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.099
raising that now as an issue, okay, when do you

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:14.619
throw up your hands and say you're fed up? But

00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:19.440
it also takes some time to tee yourself up for

00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.200
success. And so that idea of personal, back to

00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.460
that idea of personal branding, like that's not

00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:28.380
something that happens overnight. The decision

00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:32.019
to pivot doesn't happen overnight either. And

00:17:32.019 --> 00:17:35.660
so as long as you're doing some work along the

00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:38.299
way to align yourself with the kinds of things

00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:41.369
that you're Sometimes you don't even know why,

00:17:41.390 --> 00:17:44.809
right, that you're attracted to them, but you're

00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:47.549
exploring and you just kind of have to let some

00:17:47.549 --> 00:17:51.730
of that exploration happen. And then eventually

00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:55.250
it starts to come together. Yeah, that's so true.

00:17:55.450 --> 00:17:57.410
And I think back to, I was probably a couple

00:17:57.410 --> 00:18:00.410
of months out of my past job and I had coffee

00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:02.769
with a woman who, same thing, left big corporate

00:18:02.769 --> 00:18:05.289
job, started her own thing. She does like professional

00:18:05.289 --> 00:18:07.869
development coaching. So I met with her. She

00:18:07.869 --> 00:18:10.410
had been on her own for a couple years now. And

00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:13.509
I was kind of in the panic mode of, I don't have

00:18:13.509 --> 00:18:15.230
this figured out. I'm not moving forward. I don't

00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:18.009
know what to do. And she was like, you need to

00:18:18.009 --> 00:18:20.710
be patient. She's like, this doesn't happen overnight.

00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:23.829
Yes, you've made a decision. Yes, you think or

00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:26.369
thought you have a plan. And that's great. But

00:18:26.369 --> 00:18:28.349
you're not going to be firing in all cylinders

00:18:28.349 --> 00:18:30.410
in six months. And I was like, well, I'm not

00:18:30.410 --> 00:18:34.970
patient. And she's like, welcome. No, and many

00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:39.569
of us aren't. And it's a super frustrating process

00:18:39.569 --> 00:18:42.089
that is a reality of it. That's the hard part.

00:18:42.470 --> 00:18:44.650
Yeah. And that roller coaster continues. I mean,

00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:47.150
a few months ago, I was like, I've gotten everything

00:18:47.150 --> 00:18:49.029
figured out for the most part, right? I have

00:18:49.029 --> 00:18:50.809
the right cadence. I have the right business

00:18:50.809 --> 00:18:52.849
mix. And then all of a sudden, I lose a big client.

00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.079
And then I'm like, oh my gosh, that was half

00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.059
of my revenue. Well, now what do I do? Do I throw

00:18:57.059 --> 00:19:00.180
in the towel? And I've had this panic. It's like

00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:02.079
this high on the top of the roller coaster. And

00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.539
then you come plummeting down. And it was like,

00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:08.059
OK, just chill. We'll figure this out. But we

00:19:08.059 --> 00:19:09.660
make pivoting and doing your own thing sound

00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:11.599
very glamorous. And there's parts that are, but

00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.150
like that. That roller coaster and being on your

00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:16.769
own is very different that from somebody who

00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:19.269
spent 20 some years in corporate organizations

00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:21.269
where you could, I don't want to say hide behind

00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:23.170
a paycheck, the paycheck could always go away,

00:19:23.529 --> 00:19:27.589
but it was more stable than when you're on your

00:19:27.589 --> 00:19:30.430
own. So I think it's really important to be transparent

00:19:30.430 --> 00:19:33.299
about that. what that really looks like. Well,

00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:35.319
even doing little things, this was a little thing

00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.940
that a coach of mine suggested that I do when

00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:41.380
I would get down on myself and things weren't

00:19:41.380 --> 00:19:44.700
happening fast enough. And she was like saying,

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.700
well, what did happen this week that was positive?

00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:53.039
I was actually able to say, come up with a couple

00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.859
of examples, and she's like, why don't you try

00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:58.460
to, if you're a journaler, try writing that down,

00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:01.740
try to do, and it actually turned into a habit

00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:07.819
of mine. keep a notebook all the time on my desk.

00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:10.140
And I, at the end of the day, would just make

00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.940
a point of writing down and highlighting the

00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:17.359
thing that went really well that day for me.

00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.200
And then when I flip back through my notebook,

00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:22.440
I actually see the highlighted stuff. And I'm

00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.779
like, oh yeah, okay, I guess I did accomplish

00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:27.599
something. In the grand scheme of things, sometimes

00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:32.210
those two steps forward, one step. back is really

00:20:32.210 --> 00:20:35.009
frustrating. But then when you see some of the

00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:37.769
fruits of that in small pieces, that makes a

00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:40.250
big difference. Oh, I love that. And that has

00:20:40.250 --> 00:20:42.509
come up on other episodes where, you know, call

00:20:42.509 --> 00:20:44.529
it your gratitude journal, your wins journal.

00:20:44.750 --> 00:20:47.210
I've talked about a victory folder, but we're

00:20:47.210 --> 00:20:49.150
all so busy. We're moving so quickly and it's

00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:51.269
easy to get. fixated on the things that aren't

00:20:51.269 --> 00:20:53.670
going right, but having that list of like, hey,

00:20:53.730 --> 00:20:55.589
this is where I kicked butt. These are the things

00:20:55.589 --> 00:20:58.369
I did. It just helps to, one, build confidence,

00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:00.269
which is important, and two, just helps you to

00:21:00.269 --> 00:21:02.809
keep that optimistic move forward. Let's solve

00:21:02.809 --> 00:21:05.390
the problem type of approach. So I love that

00:21:05.390 --> 00:21:09.009
you mentioned that. So let's talk about the other

00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:11.950
piece of this is owning the story. So whether

00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:14.859
it was a forced or choice pivot, people like

00:21:14.859 --> 00:21:16.579
to talk and have lots of opinion of what are

00:21:16.579 --> 00:21:18.420
you doing and why did you leave that? So how

00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:22.779
do we own our story when we pivot? Yeah, so having

00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:25.619
your pivot story straight also takes a little

00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:30.200
time. But the tone of it needs to be confident

00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:36.559
and forward -looking and curious and you don't

00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.579
have all of the answers. That sort of tone I

00:21:39.579 --> 00:21:42.960
think is really important. I think that the best

00:21:43.130 --> 00:21:47.230
advice I would give for that is that it can't

00:21:47.230 --> 00:21:50.470
sound wounded. So if you are a person who had

00:21:50.470 --> 00:21:54.150
just lost a job, saying, you know, I'm out of

00:21:54.150 --> 00:21:57.990
work is not the same as I'm learning how to apply

00:21:57.990 --> 00:22:03.799
my skills in XYZ thing. to this industry, and

00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:06.220
I'm wondering if you can spend a couple minutes

00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:09.900
with me talking about, or giving me feedback

00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:14.839
on that. So I think that, and that is obviously

00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.140
in the form of a question to somebody that you're

00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.079
doing some discovery with, but you're. Pivot

00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:25.119
story can be I'm learning how to apply my 25

00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.440
years of experience in XYZ to this industry and

00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.240
I'm out there networking and talking to companies

00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.019
about it now. And that's a lot more positive

00:22:36.019 --> 00:22:38.519
than I lost my job and I'm not really sure what

00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.509
I'm going to do now, right? Well, it's funny

00:22:41.509 --> 00:22:43.549
that you say that. I have a coaching client that

00:22:43.549 --> 00:22:45.650
I'm working with and she's been in marketing

00:22:45.650 --> 00:22:49.170
type roles for like 10, 15 years. She's in her

00:22:49.170 --> 00:22:52.470
30s and restructure, she lost her job and she

00:22:52.470 --> 00:22:54.450
knew it was coming. So she started to prepare

00:22:54.450 --> 00:22:57.009
and plan. And one of the first things we did

00:22:57.009 --> 00:23:01.170
was she wanted to pivot into more of like a community

00:23:01.170 --> 00:23:05.289
relations. nonprofit type of world relationships.

00:23:05.349 --> 00:23:08.049
She had pieces of that in her previous job, but

00:23:08.049 --> 00:23:11.329
it was not her whole job. So we spent a lot of

00:23:11.329 --> 00:23:13.769
time like talking through the talking points

00:23:13.769 --> 00:23:16.170
and it wasn't contrived or wasn't fake. It was

00:23:16.170 --> 00:23:18.869
pulling out what she really had. And then being

00:23:18.869 --> 00:23:20.869
intentional with how was her resume structured?

00:23:21.230 --> 00:23:23.069
What was her LinkedIn post when she announced

00:23:23.069 --> 00:23:24.910
on LinkedIn that she was looking for her next

00:23:24.910 --> 00:23:27.509
opportunity? It was, and she's a very positive.

00:23:27.710 --> 00:23:30.170
like optimistic outgoing person and that came

00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:32.869
through in her post like, hey, I'm so excited.

00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:35.329
I'm looking for my next opportunity where I can

00:23:35.329 --> 00:23:37.950
utilize these skills and help a company do X,

00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:40.849
Y, and Z. And, you know, right away people were

00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:42.690
reaching out to her to help connect the dots

00:23:42.690 --> 00:23:44.789
and nobody was ever like, Oh my God, what happened?

00:23:44.869 --> 00:23:47.019
I mean, maybe people ask that behind the scenes.

00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.480
But, you know, she positioned this in such a

00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.539
positive opportunity, like, let's go. And she

00:23:52.539 --> 00:23:54.859
is very excited, right? Like, of course, it's

00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:57.380
very scary at first. But now she's like, this

00:23:57.380 --> 00:23:59.460
is my opportunity. I've been wanting to do something

00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:02.619
like this for years. And now I've maybe she was

00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:05.220
pushed, right? Maybe she wasn't ready. But she

00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:08.839
has an opportunity now to pivot and control that

00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:13.420
story. Yep. Yeah. Controlling the story, I think,

00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.440
is a little bit of what we're saying here, but

00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:18.700
not in a way that makes it sound like you're

00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:22.640
embarrassed or that there's anything wrong with

00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:25.339
or unusual about the circumstances you're finding

00:24:25.339 --> 00:24:27.779
yourself in. But what's the bright side of that?

00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.759
Where are you taking it? And that's the part

00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.500
of the story that you have to think about. Absolutely.

00:24:32.900 --> 00:24:35.480
And I think that even ties if it's a choice and

00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:38.640
you had a big title at a corporate job and It

00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.259
could be your own friends and family, right?

00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:41.960
Who are like, what are you doing? Why would you

00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:44.950
leave that? big paycheck that was stable. I mean,

00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:47.250
it's that part of it too, especially if you're

00:24:47.250 --> 00:24:49.470
a little vague on what you're doing, then people

00:24:49.470 --> 00:24:51.410
question like, why would you walk away from that?

00:24:51.589 --> 00:24:53.210
Yes, you're saying all the right things, but

00:24:53.210 --> 00:24:57.349
I do think to just tone and picking yourself

00:24:57.349 --> 00:24:59.990
up by your bootstraps a little bit each day to

00:24:59.990 --> 00:25:04.049
make sure that you have that story. And the story

00:25:04.049 --> 00:25:07.630
will evolve, right? That's kind of part of it

00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:11.210
too, is the story evolves, but the positive side

00:25:11.210 --> 00:25:14.079
of where you want to go is what you should be

00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:17.680
weaving into that pivot story. I love that. So

00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:19.579
for the woman who's listening to this and knows

00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:22.720
something has to change but is scared or thinks

00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.619
it's too late, we already identified it's never

00:25:24.619 --> 00:25:28.039
too late, right? What's the one thing that you

00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:32.319
want her to hear? I had someone said to me the

00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.519
words personal advisory board at some point and

00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.829
I was like, What is a personal advisory board?

00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:42.390
But the whole concept was so amazing to me. And

00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:46.809
I immediately, for people who have formal mentors

00:25:46.809 --> 00:25:49.569
or have had mentors in their career, you kind

00:25:49.569 --> 00:25:52.230
of, you have those people already in your orbit.

00:25:52.309 --> 00:25:54.609
But the reality is, is not everyone does. Not

00:25:54.609 --> 00:25:56.710
everyone's exposed to those kinds of programs.

00:25:57.130 --> 00:26:01.789
Not everyone has mentors and advisors. My point

00:26:01.789 --> 00:26:04.390
is that it's OK for you to surround yourself

00:26:04.390 --> 00:26:08.069
with some of the people that you choose and start

00:26:08.069 --> 00:26:10.769
your own personal advisory board. And that needs

00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:13.230
to include somebody who's going to challenge

00:26:13.230 --> 00:26:16.029
you. It needs to include somebody who's going

00:26:16.029 --> 00:26:19.549
to be your cheerleader and root for you. It needs

00:26:19.549 --> 00:26:21.250
to include somebody who's going to ask you a

00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:24.009
lot of questions so that you can kind of get

00:26:24.009 --> 00:26:28.069
your your story straight. And it just needs to

00:26:28.069 --> 00:26:30.349
include a lot of different kinds of personality.

00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:32.920
because that is a journey, the whole thing is

00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:34.980
a journey, and you're gonna need all of those

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:37.160
different kind of people as you go through it.

00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.460
So my advice is to start thinking about who do

00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:42.559
you have on your personal advisory board? It's

00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.839
not necessarily, it's certainly not a paid position,

00:26:46.220 --> 00:26:49.759
right? To be your personal advisory board. Maybe

00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:55.119
a coffee, yes, absolutely. And I think, but just...

00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:58.900
reaching out to people and saying, this is what

00:26:58.900 --> 00:27:02.759
I'm doing. This is where I'm going. You have

00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:08.240
always been this to me. I would love to use you

00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.619
as a sounding board. And the reality is people

00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:15.200
will... help. You know what it's like when something

00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:17.660
happens to someone, you always say, okay, let

00:27:17.660 --> 00:27:19.980
me know what I can do. But the reality is, if

00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:23.700
you tell them what you want them to do, then

00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:26.940
you actually usually get better results. So helping

00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:30.099
your personal advisory board know what role you

00:27:30.099 --> 00:27:34.380
want them to play is really helpful. And you

00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:37.019
can tell them, I want you to challenge me. I

00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:40.019
want you to be the person who makes me feel better

00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:42.900
and has coffee with me once a month. I want you

00:27:42.900 --> 00:27:48.539
to be the person who asks me questions and, you

00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:50.960
know, lets me role play with you, whatever that

00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:53.380
may be. But those are the kind of people that

00:27:53.380 --> 00:27:55.220
you need to surround yourself with. And that

00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:58.339
was breakthrough for me. Anybody who doesn't

00:27:58.339 --> 00:28:00.460
like asking for help. I'm sure. I appreciate

00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:02.420
it. Right. You talk about a personal advisory

00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:04.740
board, and I use the same concept. I call it

00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:06.619
a circle. And who's in your circle? And it's

00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:08.619
so funny, as you were saying that, I say the

00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:11.660
same thing. A truth teller, a connector, a cheerleader,

00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.640
right? So it all is around that thing of no one's

00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.039
doing this alone. We need people to give us different

00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.099
perspectives, sometimes to build us up, sometimes

00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:21.859
to push us. But the personal advisory board is

00:28:21.859 --> 00:28:25.200
such a great title for that. And I think so often,

00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.500
we get hung up on mentors, which are important

00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:31.190
100%. But it's that advisory board that you might

00:28:31.190 --> 00:28:33.410
talk to once or twice a year, but who's going

00:28:33.410 --> 00:28:34.990
to give you that feedback that you can shoot

00:28:34.990 --> 00:28:38.430
an email to whatever it is to have that relationship,

00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:40.990
but will give you who knows who you are and knows

00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:43.650
your strengths. So I love I love telling that

00:28:43.650 --> 00:28:46.910
a perfect advisory board and I 100 % agree. You

00:28:46.910 --> 00:28:48.609
need to have people with different perspectives,

00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:51.069
different ages, industries, right? Like there's

00:28:51.069 --> 00:28:53.910
always that piece of it. The ages thing is a

00:28:53.910 --> 00:28:57.369
big one, I think right now, because as a person

00:28:57.369 --> 00:29:01.789
who is older but has been involved in technology,

00:29:02.089 --> 00:29:04.869
I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm struggling

00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:08.369
to keep up in this AI environment. And while

00:29:08.369 --> 00:29:12.269
I think that AI offers a huge opportunity, having

00:29:12.269 --> 00:29:16.230
young people on my personal advisory board to

00:29:16.230 --> 00:29:19.750
say, is this how you... use this? Would you do

00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:23.029
it this way? Show me how you've done it." So

00:29:23.029 --> 00:29:27.630
having young people in that circle is absolutely

00:29:27.630 --> 00:29:29.849
an important one. That's so interesting that

00:29:29.849 --> 00:29:32.410
you're saying as somebody who is older that you

00:29:32.410 --> 00:29:34.569
would have younger people a different experience,

00:29:34.609 --> 00:29:36.069
but they're going to bring a different perspective.

00:29:36.130 --> 00:29:38.069
So that's such a great point because I think

00:29:38.069 --> 00:29:40.690
so often, especially with mentors, we think older,

00:29:40.789 --> 00:29:42.410
somebody with more experience. It just has to

00:29:42.410 --> 00:29:45.130
be different experience. It doesn't have to be

00:29:45.130 --> 00:29:48.480
more. So that's a great point. Oh, that's awesome.

00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:51.900
So this has been so much great advice on why

00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.319
we do it, how we do it, that roadmap. Is there

00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:56.920
any other final takeaway that you think women

00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.440
who are thinking about pivoting or just pivoted

00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:01.839
need to know? Besides reading your book, obviously,

00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:11.039
which we'll put in the show notes. We just kind

00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.440
of touched on this idea of women being comfortable

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.579
asking for help and men do this all the time

00:30:16.579 --> 00:30:20.339
always have They use their networks to find their

00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:24.140
next client to find their next job We as as women

00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:26.819
tend not to be as comfortable doing that not

00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:29.960
everything should be transactional and that's

00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.140
that's absolutely not what I'm saying, but a

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:36.180
big thing that I wanted to convey in my book

00:30:36.180 --> 00:30:42.279
was that as a woman who in corporate environments,

00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.359
most of my mentors and the people I turned to

00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:49.440
were men. Most of the women that I had in my

00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.440
network were counter examples for me. And so

00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:57.339
I do think that in this environment, it's very

00:30:57.339 --> 00:30:59.819
important that we are out there taking care of

00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:02.059
each other because programs are being eliminated,

00:31:02.539 --> 00:31:05.980
opportunities are starting to disappear, and

00:31:05.980 --> 00:31:10.559
who better than us to take care of other women

00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.019
who are on the struggle bus with us and trying

00:31:14.019 --> 00:31:17.980
to figure all of this out. So I would just encourage

00:31:17.980 --> 00:31:22.460
people to think twice about taking a woman under

00:31:22.460 --> 00:31:27.180
your wing and finding a way to support them and

00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:31.579
doing something positive for women. Every week,

00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.599
I think, is something that will come back and

00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.490
pay you in spades. Oh, I love that. That's so

00:31:37.490 --> 00:31:39.769
true and such amazing advice. Trish, thank you

00:31:39.769 --> 00:31:41.650
so much for being here. We will link your book.

00:31:42.009 --> 00:31:44.150
We appreciate you being part of Loud and Lifted.

00:31:44.349 --> 00:31:46.529
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Betsy.

00:31:46.589 --> 00:31:48.869
Have a great one. What I appreciated most about

00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:51.369
this conversation is the reminder that pivoting

00:31:51.369 --> 00:31:54.130
isn't a straight line. You can feel completely

00:31:54.130 --> 00:31:56.990
confident one week and question every decision

00:31:56.990 --> 00:31:59.329
you've made the next. That doesn't mean pivoting

00:31:59.329 --> 00:32:02.069
is failing. It means you're still building, learning,

00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:05.740
and figuring out what fits. I also love Trisha's

00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:08.019
idea of creating a personal advisory board, the

00:32:08.019 --> 00:32:10.359
people who will cheer you, challenge you, ask

00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:12.460
the right questions, and help you see what you

00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.460
might not be able to see on your own. Because

00:32:15.460 --> 00:32:17.619
no matter what your next chapter looks like,

00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:21.079
you should not have to navigate it alone. You

00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:23.240
can find Trisha's book, Why Women Pivot, along

00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:25.319
with more information about her in the show notes.

00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:27.680
And if this episode made you think of a woman

00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:29.680
who's in the middle of her own pivot, send it

00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:31.920
to her. She may need the reminder that it's not

00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.319
too late and she does not have to have it all

00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:38.480
figured out just yet or do it alone. Until next

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.440
time, stay loud and stay lifted.