Why So Many Successful Women Lose Their Voice

WEBVTT

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We're constantly telling women to speak up, advocate

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for themselves, and use their voices. But what

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if the problem is not simply that women need

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more confidence? What if many of us have spent

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years learning to withhold our opinions, needs,

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goals, and even parts of ourselves to make life

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easier and more comfortable for everyone else?

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My guest today, Elaine Lynn Herring, calls that

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learned silence. Elaine is a facilitator, speaker,

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and the author of Unlearning Silence, How to

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Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More

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Fully. In this conversation, she completely changed

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how I think about what it means to be silent,

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and honestly, what it means to be loud. We talk

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about why so many capable women lose touch with

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what they think and need, how workplaces reward

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women for being agreeable and easy to work with,

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and why vague feedback like, work on your executive

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presence can keep talented women stuck. We also

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get very practical. Elaine shares simple questions

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and small experiments that can help you rebuild

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your voice without suddenly becoming literally

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the loudest person in the room or even blowing

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up your entire life. Because being loud does

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not mean talking more or louder than everyone

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else. It means knowing who you are, understanding

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what you think and need, and having the agency

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to fully show up as yourself. Let's get into

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it. Welcome to loud and lifted Elaine. Thank

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you so much for being here. Thanks for having

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me. You know, there's some guests that we have

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on that their platform and their topics just

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align so beautifully with loud and lifted. And

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loud is our keyword today, which we'll get into

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that in a little bit more. But we'll kind of

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start at the beginning here. And, you know, as

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women, we're constantly told to speak up and

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advocate for ourselves and use our voice. And

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hey, I'm telling people to be loud, right? But

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you have some ideas behind your work that there's

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advice missing, something important, and that

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many of us have learned to stay silent for various

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reasons. So let's start there. When you talk

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about women unlearning silence, what exactly

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are we unlearning? Yeah. Well, let me define

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silence because some people are like, should

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I not be doing yoga? I'm like, yes. I mean, no,

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do yoga. But the silence I'm talking about is

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not the silence that many of us are chasing at

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the yoga mat. The silence I'm talking about is

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the withholding of self for the comfort and convenience

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of others. And that learned silence is, as a

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young child, I was supposed to be seen and not

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heard. I thought it was just my family, but I

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started talking with my Latina sisters and they're

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like, there's a phrase that our grandmothers

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repeated to us, which is Calladita te vis mas

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bonita. Essentially, you're prettier when you

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shut up. And in what ways, especially as mothers,

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do we withhold our own thoughts, needs, goals,

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hopes, dreams to take care of everybody else?

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So that withholding of self, whether it's a dream,

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a goal, a need, a wish, an emotion, because we're

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too emotional, we hold that to make it more comfortable

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and convenient for other people, to not rock

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the boat, to make things around the house and

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on our teams work. That silence has really negative

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impacts that we can get into. And so the unlearning

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is this realization that If it's something we

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picked up along the way, there are assumptions

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and behaviors and habits and patterns that we

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could examine. And if it's no longer serving

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who we are today or who we're becoming, we can

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choose a different way. But it comes, it starts

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with actually diagnosing the situation accurately,

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because so often we're told just speak up. Like

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you need to be more assertive, you need to smile

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more, smile less, I don't know, right? Talking

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a deeper voice, to have more authority. And that

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misdiagnosis sends us on a wild goose chase to

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say, okay, I'm like doing the thing, I'm being

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more assertive, but I'm still not getting that

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promotion. What's wrong? I must not be doing

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it right. Versus no, courage and confidence,

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all of those things are good. But the root cause

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is learned silence. where I might, without even

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knowing it, diminish my own perspective, or I

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think that I'm being humble by thinking about

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other people, or I'm a servant leader, and so

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I don't want to take up space. That is all learned

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silence for the comfort and convenience of others,

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and it's worth reexamining. That is the best

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definition I have ever heard, because you're

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right. When you say the word silence, people

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just think of sitting there being quiet. Yes,

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that's part of it. But the way that you explain

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that and the reason why people are silent, I

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think there is anyone who hears that that wouldn't

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be like, oh, I totally have done that, or I do

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that consistently in a certain situation. So

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I think that's such an important definition and

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to start there. And I know you talk about there's

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different kinds of silences. So do we want to

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dig into what those different kinds of silences

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are? Yeah, let's do that. But let's also just

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acknowledge many of us were rewarded for being

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silent. We were rewarded because we smiled and

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looked pretty. We were rewarded because we were

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easy to work with, i .e. I don't have any needs,

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goals, hopes, demands of my own, so you keep

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me in the friend group. Or you want me on your

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team. Or you take credit for my ideas and I don't

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push back and so you get credit and you get the

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promotion and I'm still stuck here holding, doing

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all the caregiving for everyone else. But also

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wanting to grow in my career but feeling stuck

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but being told actually the problems used to

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just go like get more confidence and then maybe

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we'll promote you. So you're a good team player

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when you do those things. Way to be collaborative

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and supportive. I love that your tone went up

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a notch. We all have had those conversations

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and there's an identity piece of us being rewarded

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relationally. for being likable, easy, good team

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player, but at what cost? And often the cost

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is our own needs, goals, hopes, dreams, aims

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are not fulfilled. That we're doing all the things

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that are right by other people, but are we doing

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right by ourselves and who we could be? And understanding

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silence in those three different ways, which

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is, well, what's the silence I've learned? Right?

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I've learned that I remember being in a kitchen

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with a friend and my mom played a, we were chatting

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with the boys were playing and my kid had finished

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drinking water from a glass. And the other mom

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asked me, like, do you want to drink? And I was

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like, sure, I'll have some water. And I picked

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up my kid's dirty cup and was about to refill

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it. And she's like, no, no, no, you, you can

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have your own cup. I was like, really? No. No,

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because that's like one more dish I have to wash.

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So there's an efficiency in reusing the thing.

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It's like, are we eating the crumbs left over

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from our kids' lunch because we made sure they

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had a balanced meal. Meanwhile, I'm eating crusts

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from the PB &J sandwich. Right. Right. In what

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ways have I learned to ignore or withhold my

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needs in part because maybe I expressed them

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to my spouse and it did not go well. Or I said

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it to my colleague and they're like, You just

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need to grow thicker skin. That's self -silencing

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that is mine to own. But one of my big realizations

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in my own experience was, wait, it's not just

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a personal flaw of mine or some behavior I learned.

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Other people are also benefiting off of me not

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having any supposed needs, goals, hopes, and

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concerns. because they get away with taking credit

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for my work. They get away with prioritizing

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the projects that they think are important. They

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get away with passing off my work as their own.

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And I've never met a leader who said, you know,

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I really want to silence and suppress the people

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on my team. Sure. But if we're, for example,

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requiring everyone to speak in three succinct

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bullet points with no ums, with just the right

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amount of emotion to show that you care, but

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not too much that you lose credibility, we have

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a very narrow definition of acceptable behavior.

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Oh, that's interesting. You're right, because

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it's not like they're walking around with duct

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tape telling you not to talk. No, but Betsy,

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you don't have presence. We can't have you present

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at the board meeting because You don't have a,

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you're not communicative enough, right? We need

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someone bolder. Well, what does bolder mean and

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what expectations do you have of me? And especially

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because you look at me as an Asian American woman

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and you have certain assumptions about who I

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am and how I sound. I've gotten, I'm a keynote

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speaker and I often get the feedback, oh, you

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weren't what we were expecting. Like, I'm not

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Tony Robbins. I don't aspire to be Tony Robbins.

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Tony Robbins is Tony Robbins. I'm Elaine Lynn

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Herring. I'm going to inherently sound different.

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I'm going to have a different affect. I'm going

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to tell different stories. But if leadership

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looks like Tony Robbins, then the rest of us

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don't fit. So it is also broadening our perspective

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of what is acceptable voice. Because maybe the

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long -winded rambly thing, there's a gem of an

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idea in there. But are we gonna listen through

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it or create space where it's okay to have first

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draft thinking? Or does everything need to be

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shiny, pass through Canva and on a succinct deck?

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As colleagues, as human beings, we're gonna miss

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out on brilliance if we are expecting everyone

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to, or everyone has to sound a certain way in

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order to be heard and respected. That's so true.

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And growing up in a large corporate organization,

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two of the words that I heard all the time, actually

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three, that make me still twitch to this day

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was polish and executive presence, right? I was

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told to work on my executive presence many times

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through my career there, which ironically, I

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went somewhere else and became a CEO. So funny

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how that works, right? Yes, work on your executive

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presence. Okay. What does that mean? Like what

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does that look like? Oh, it looks like the 55

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year old white men that are on the leadership

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team. I have to look and act like and dress like

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them. Like how does that translate? You know,

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Betsy, you should really shop at Brooks Brothers.

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That'll solve your problem. Right. It'd be so

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much easier. We're like a suit in every color.

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Yeah, what do we require of each other in order

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to be heard? you know, in chapter five of my

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book, A Learning Silence, talk about nine different

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ways that we silence each other. You know, having

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to show up in real time as a talker is one of

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them, but actually one of the ways that we silence

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each other is also just assuming that everyone

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is like us. Like if in that moment I would say

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something, right, I'm at the coffee shop, the

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barista got my order wrong, I would go back and

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say I ordered a latte, not a mocha. And if you

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don't do that, I'm gonna judge you. We are actually

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different people. And so there's a question of

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how can we, as a matter of being loud and lifted,

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lift one another by accepting each other and

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seeing the gifts of, it is a beautiful thing

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that you're Betsy and I'm Elaine, and we should

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not actually look and sound the same. There's

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enough of one of us in the world. Sure, right.

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How much is it is the... the desire for people

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to avoid confrontation or like how does that

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what is it playing into especially that self

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-silencing because i and i don't know this but

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i'm wondering like is it kind of like a 50 -50

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thing right like half time it's in my head and

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i have created this scenario that i think i shouldn't

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say or do something and the other half might

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be because of what i've experienced in my past

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so how does that sort of all play together in

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a really messy way that keeps people stuck And

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so to me, the opportunity is do a small experiment.

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And by small experiment, I mean low risk, strangers

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are great to practice on, right? No long term

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relationship. So probably don't start with your

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mother -in -law if you have one, but it is both.

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If we are trying to avoid conflict, often it

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is because we don't have reps where we said something

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expressed in a point of view or perspective or

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preference and it went well. That's not part

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of our data set. And so part of the point of

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doing low risk experiments is adding positive

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experiences to your data set. So an example of

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a low risk experiment would be you're going out

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to dinner with friends and you actually really

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don't care where you go or what food you have.

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But you might, as a matter of experimenting,

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just say, you know, like, what about Thai? What

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about Thai food? Because if people reply positively,

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you have a data point that actually you saying

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something mattered. If they don't latch on to

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it, they're like, no, no, no, we really want

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Italian. You're like, no big deal, right? I didn't

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really care about it. But it gives you the embodied

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experience of I expressed a point of view or

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preference. And I did not die. But like the relationship

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didn't break. Whereas so many of us, and I include

00:14:01.580 --> 00:14:04.100
myself in this, it's like I was raised where

00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:06.919
I couldn't push back. Or if I asked a question

00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:10.139
to my father, things did not go well. Well, not

00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:12.320
everyone in the world, not every man is my father,

00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.639
but I've got scar tissue there that makes me

00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:20.600
more conservative in whether I even try. But

00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:23.500
those experiments give me reps to say, I can

00:14:23.500 --> 00:14:27.149
say the thing, maybe. It changes the outcome.

00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:30.850
Maybe it doesn't, but actually I am still okay.

00:14:31.250 --> 00:14:35.190
And we relationally are still okay. That's such

00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:36.809
a great point. And, you know, I can think of

00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:38.570
friends or even coworkers through the years who

00:14:38.570 --> 00:14:41.809
were just so agreeable and almost like the people

00:14:41.809 --> 00:14:44.490
pleaser where they just never had a point of

00:14:44.490 --> 00:14:46.549
view or I'm sure they had a point of view, but

00:14:46.549 --> 00:14:48.769
they wouldn't share it. And there's been times

00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:50.960
where I've Sure, I've made people uncomfortable

00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.220
where I would push back and be like no I need

00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:57.500
you to have a boy And but you can just see that

00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:00.080
the discomfort with some people when you do that

00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:01.919
that it was like and it could Be something silly

00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:03.899
right again. We're not talking about saving lives.

00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:05.779
We're talking about where you're eating dinner

00:15:05.779 --> 00:15:08.710
or how to position something in a meeting, you

00:15:08.710 --> 00:15:11.090
know, just stuff that wasn't mission critical

00:15:11.090 --> 00:15:13.889
and just discomfort from these people in those

00:15:13.889 --> 00:15:17.009
situations. So someone's listening to this and

00:15:17.009 --> 00:15:19.409
maybe they aren't terrible at that. We can all

00:15:19.409 --> 00:15:21.830
be improving, but we talked about lifting others.

00:15:21.850 --> 00:15:24.370
How do we support other people in those situations?

00:15:25.529 --> 00:15:29.230
I think there's a key piece. And then I also

00:15:29.230 --> 00:15:32.230
want to go back to you said, maybe they do have

00:15:32.230 --> 00:15:35.110
points of view. Actually, let's go there first,

00:15:35.110 --> 00:15:38.759
which is This tracks my own experience. If we

00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.580
have lived a life solving for everyone else's

00:15:42.580 --> 00:15:47.460
needs, trying to please everyone else, there

00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:50.600
is a really disorienting moment of like, well,

00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.419
what do I think? Right? Do I have a point of

00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:57.899
view? I don't know if I do. And wait, I'm a grown

00:15:57.899 --> 00:15:59.519
ass woman and I don't know who I am and what

00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.980
I think. Ah. And I say that with such compassion

00:16:03.980 --> 00:16:08.059
because in my 30s, I had that moment where I

00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:10.039
have lived by everyone else's rules. I've had

00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.799
a very successful life as a result, but it's

00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:15.360
never what do I think or what do I want? It's

00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.539
what would my mom want? What would my boss want?

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.779
How do I tow the company line? What's good for

00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:26.450
the family? And so there is a point where you,

00:16:26.529 --> 00:16:29.909
as a matter of silencing yourself or being silenced,

00:16:30.370 --> 00:16:33.990
that you no longer form a point of view. Now,

00:16:34.110 --> 00:16:36.690
the good news is that awareness means that you

00:16:36.690 --> 00:16:39.789
can do something about it. And to re -nurture

00:16:39.789 --> 00:16:42.049
your voice, you can simply ask yourself two questions.

00:16:42.129 --> 00:16:43.909
You can do it inside your head so no one needs

00:16:43.909 --> 00:16:47.240
to know yet. But what do I think? not what does

00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:48.940
my mother think, not what does my manager think,

00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.019
not what does best practice tell me to think,

00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.279
but what do I think? Do I agree with what they're

00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.500
saying right now, or do I disagree? What do I

00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.500
think is missing? Right, what do I think? And

00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:02.139
second, what do I need? Because especially as

00:17:02.139 --> 00:17:04.539
women, especially as mothers, no one else is

00:17:04.539 --> 00:17:06.640
thinking about what we need, as we are thinking

00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.319
about what everyone else needs. And that awareness

00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.299
of what do I think, what do I need, re -nurtures

00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:16.720
your sense of self. that there is a you in there.

00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:18.779
That's not just solving for everyone else, but

00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:21.799
who is unique, who is important, who is valued.

00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.460
That's how you get a point of view. Now, there

00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:26.640
are real career implications to this as well,

00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:29.779
because at an entry -level perspective, or before

00:17:29.779 --> 00:17:33.319
AI took over the world, you were rewarded and

00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.900
paid for what you produced. As you rise in the

00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:39.160
ranks, you're actually not rewarded for what

00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.819
you produce, you're rewarded for your perspective.

00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:45.109
Right your point of view you are the legal expert

00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:47.430
you are the marketing expert give me your point

00:17:47.430 --> 00:17:51.789
of view tell me. And so if. You know getting

00:17:51.789 --> 00:17:53.990
to live fully as who you really are is an incentive

00:17:53.990 --> 00:17:57.210
enough on the career front knowing that actually

00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:59.630
having a point of view is part of your value

00:17:59.630 --> 00:18:03.319
add that is different than. Are you the decision

00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.420
maker and are you owning the consequences? But

00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:09.180
are you adding your perspective because that

00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:12.420
is actually what you eventually get paid for?

00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.220
That's a great point. Now for the people, as

00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:18.220
you mentioned, who are worried about this, how

00:18:18.220 --> 00:18:21.839
do we create space and lift each other? I think

00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.900
it's really the mindset shift of, Betsy, if you

00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.000
can tell me what would make you happy or hit

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.660
the notes for you, I actually can love you better.

00:18:31.369 --> 00:18:34.730
I can be a better friend to you. And so there's

00:18:34.730 --> 00:18:37.170
a value proposition where we're putting the other

00:18:37.170 --> 00:18:40.549
person in a helper's perspective. You can help

00:18:40.549 --> 00:18:43.650
me be a better friend to you. It would really

00:18:43.650 --> 00:18:46.490
make my day if we could have whatever would make

00:18:46.490 --> 00:18:49.509
you happy for lunch. Can you help me do that

00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:53.309
by telling me what you actually want? So it's

00:18:53.309 --> 00:18:56.839
a bit of a mental hack. You know, another mental

00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.039
hack is just the normalization of all human beings

00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.819
have needs. So the fact that you have needs or

00:19:03.819 --> 00:19:06.759
preferences does not make you needy, which is

00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:09.200
often what we're trying to avoid because it feels

00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:13.740
like, oh, I don't want to be that person. If

00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:17.039
you even have that idea running through your

00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.640
head, if you don't want to be that person, I

00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.019
promise you, you are not that person. Never.

00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.339
That's so true. But you are human. Right. And

00:19:25.339 --> 00:19:27.619
that means that you have needs, goals, hopes,

00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.640
perspectives, preferences, and sharing those

00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.799
actually allows the people around you to love

00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:40.180
you at home, to know you, right? It's core to

00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:42.720
intimacy in friendship or relationship or marriage,

00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:46.200
and at work to actually support you to allow

00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:50.180
you to do your best work. So sharing it isn't

00:19:50.180 --> 00:19:53.930
selfish, it's actually of service. I like that.

00:19:53.930 --> 00:19:56.410
That's good. It's actually of service. And it's

00:19:56.410 --> 00:19:57.809
interesting when you were talking about that,

00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:00.269
I have a friend who recently just had a conversation

00:20:00.269 --> 00:20:02.990
with where she's very strong, very capable, dependable,

00:20:03.049 --> 00:20:06.410
has a high stress job, high level leadership.

00:20:07.789 --> 00:20:10.369
It's suddenly coming to this head where you know,

00:20:10.549 --> 00:20:12.569
she has three kids she has a husband and and

00:20:12.569 --> 00:20:15.230
everything is great But she literally is just

00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:17.990
feeling this anxiety and this anxiousness all

00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:19.950
the time and she's like I don't even know who

00:20:19.950 --> 00:20:21.710
I am I don't even know what I want like and to

00:20:21.710 --> 00:20:24.089
her kids are older So, you know that that changes

00:20:24.089 --> 00:20:27.430
your need to be the mom I mean how how that happens

00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:29.990
or what your time is spent with but you know,

00:20:29.990 --> 00:20:31.940
she was really struggling she's like I don't

00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:34.240
even know what I would do in my free time. I

00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:37.839
don't even know what I do to just relax. It's

00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:40.079
kind of like to your earlier point where she's

00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.980
been so focused on everybody else that if you

00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:45.190
would put her in a room and tell her to... think

00:20:45.190 --> 00:20:47.289
about herself right that would probably make

00:20:47.289 --> 00:20:50.410
her go nuts so how do we handle that i mean that's

00:20:50.410 --> 00:20:53.609
i think super common for these high high functioning

00:20:53.609 --> 00:20:56.069
like you know super career -driven women where

00:20:56.069 --> 00:20:58.029
we have been we just check in the boxes getting

00:20:58.029 --> 00:21:00.170
everything done taking care of everybody that

00:21:00.170 --> 00:21:02.750
we don't know what our point of view is yeah

00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:06.849
let me start with a mindset which is that change

00:21:06.849 --> 00:21:10.849
is a good thing change or changing your mind

00:21:10.849 --> 00:21:14.500
changing your preferences changing maybe even

00:21:14.500 --> 00:21:17.079
how you're showing up in the world doesn't make

00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.019
you unreliable. It doesn't mean you're a flip

00:21:20.019 --> 00:21:22.160
-flopper, right? All the narratives that we have

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.440
for ourselves. Change just means you're growing

00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.720
and learning and still alive and evolving. So

00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.599
we'll start there because with your friend, I

00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.019
would say this is completely normal. Join the

00:21:36.019 --> 00:21:42.039
club. And because that sort of losing yourself

00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:44.559
in all the other roles that you play for everyone

00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.819
else didn't happen overnight, the re nurturing

00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:50.480
of your sense of self is also not going to happen

00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.460
overnight. It's not flip a switch. This is part

00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:58.059
of why I love sabbaticals and I love experiments.

00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.519
because you can't find your voice, meaning how

00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:03.819
do I want to live, how do I want to show up in

00:22:03.819 --> 00:22:05.500
the world, how do I want to use my gifts, skills,

00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:08.839
talents, you can't do that in theory. You can

00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.980
only do that in action. I used to teach piano

00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:18.319
and I had a very, I found her challenging as

00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.279
a student. She was not great at focusing and

00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.240
I tend to be a pretty mild -mannered person,

00:22:25.539 --> 00:22:28.089
calm, I mean go the encouragement route. She

00:22:28.089 --> 00:22:31.049
was raised by a grandmother who would yell. And

00:22:31.049 --> 00:22:33.190
nothing I was doing was getting through to the

00:22:33.190 --> 00:22:35.630
student. So I thought, let me just try yelling.

00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:38.750
Because it's not my first go -to, but nothing

00:22:38.750 --> 00:22:40.690
else seems to work. Maybe you're used to it in

00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:43.690
your family system, so let's do that. And so

00:22:43.690 --> 00:22:47.289
I sort of yelled more loudly at her. My yelling

00:22:47.289 --> 00:22:50.250
is not particularly loud. And it was like this,

00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:53.329
oh, OK, that's definitely not me. But there's

00:22:53.329 --> 00:22:57.839
a trying it on. including the hobbies that you

00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.339
used to have pre -kids, the things that used

00:23:00.339 --> 00:23:05.359
to nourish and rejuvenate you, they may not work

00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:10.180
anymore because you are alive and you are evolving.

00:23:10.779 --> 00:23:15.279
And so there's a curiosity of, okay, who am I?

00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:17.119
What do I think? What do I need? Maybe I'm like,

00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:20.640
I need a nap. Maybe I'm like, I need alone time.

00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.140
Wait, no, alone time's really scary, because

00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:24.680
then I just have to sit with my own thoughts.

00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:26.859
Like maybe let me go for a walk with a friend.

00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.880
And also that things are going to change. I used

00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:35.119
to find doing puzzles really calming, like putting

00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.900
things in order. I was a puzzler. And these days

00:23:38.900 --> 00:23:42.299
it just stresses me out. And so can we allow

00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:45.319
for ourselves to be different people or different

00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.579
manifestations of ourselves in different seasons?

00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:52.039
And pairing that with a good healthy dose of

00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:55.160
experimenting, trying it on, both in what we're

00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.599
doing and what we're saying to other people,

00:23:58.099 --> 00:24:01.299
right? At what point might I share with my spouse

00:24:01.299 --> 00:24:06.599
or with my teenager of, no, I need a night to

00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.859
myself, or you know what? I'm not cooking dinner

00:24:09.859 --> 00:24:12.640
tonight. Everyone is on their own. Like, you're

00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.000
old enough to order something or door dash or

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:16.920
stuff. You're like, figure it out. Make yourself

00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.740
a sandwich. But we so often get hooked into the

00:24:21.740 --> 00:24:24.220
roles that we've played and then worry about

00:24:24.220 --> 00:24:27.539
the relational impact when we stop playing those

00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:30.980
roles because other people rely on us. But what

00:24:30.980 --> 00:24:33.420
we've missed in that is that they are also growing

00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:38.420
and evolving. And us overcompensating for them,

00:24:39.619 --> 00:24:41.480
maybe we might think because we're overcompensating

00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:43.660
for their deficiencies, but it also means that

00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:45.900
they don't get to grow. And in the meantime,

00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:49.839
our own needs aren't met. And so the stance I

00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.220
always take as someone who comes from classic

00:24:52.220 --> 00:24:54.799
negotiation, interest -based negotiation theory

00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.619
is you also are a party to the negotiation. Right?

00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:01.319
Every person, every stakeholder has needs, goals,

00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.519
hopes, and concerns. If you are a human being,

00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.079
you also have a set of needs, goals, hopes, and

00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.759
concerns that are just as valid as everyone else's.

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.500
And if you need to recultivate that awareness

00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:13.440
of what those are, start with those internal

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.740
questions of what do I think and what do I need?

00:25:16.180 --> 00:25:18.779
Because you will very quickly be reminded when

00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:23.539
you give yourself permission to figure out what

00:25:23.539 --> 00:25:27.009
your needs are. then it's pretty hard not to

00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:29.390
share them with other people. Because in your

00:25:29.390 --> 00:25:32.890
head, you're like, no, stop talking to me. I

00:25:32.890 --> 00:25:37.289
just need a moment. That's a great point. So

00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:40.009
what's the long -term cost of staying silent?

00:25:41.329 --> 00:25:43.670
I mean, frankly, the long -term cost to staying

00:25:43.670 --> 00:25:48.430
silent is comparable to smoking. or obesity in

00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:52.869
terms of cardiovascular impact, in terms of a

00:25:52.869 --> 00:25:55.930
compromised immune system. That's just the physical

00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:58.190
health impact of self -silencing. And there's

00:25:58.190 --> 00:26:03.009
a great Time Magazine article called, self -silencing

00:26:03.009 --> 00:26:05.349
is killing women. And we can link that in the

00:26:05.349 --> 00:26:10.410
show notes. But also there's another layer which

00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:11.849
the surgeon general and everyone else has been

00:26:11.849 --> 00:26:14.440
talking about in terms of social isolation. Right?

00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.259
Silence means that you're not talking about what

00:26:17.259 --> 00:26:19.319
really matters to you or the weight that you're

00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:22.759
really carrying. And because you're not sharing

00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:24.920
it with someone, right? Let me be really clear.

00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:26.779
I'm not saying go post on social media about

00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:30.640
every thought that you've ever had, but share

00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.619
with discernment with someone so that you are

00:26:33.619 --> 00:26:37.480
not carrying things on your own. I'd argue that

00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.759
we fundamentally want to be seen, known, and

00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:43.200
heard. right, to be loved if someone actually

00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.579
knows me, knows what's going on, sees everything

00:26:46.579 --> 00:26:50.059
I'm doing and and putting out there and acknowledging

00:26:50.059 --> 00:26:55.019
that. And if I'm not sharing with someone what

00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:58.359
is weighing heavy on me, I'm not only carrying

00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:01.240
that thing, but I'm also carrying what I talk

00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:03.880
about in the book is the double pain of having

00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.380
to carry it alone. And if you're worried about

00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.210
them making it worse, You can also text them

00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:13.250
and say, hey, this is what's been keeping me

00:27:13.250 --> 00:27:15.990
up at night. I don't want to talk about it further,

00:27:16.009 --> 00:27:20.549
but I wanted someone to know. And so the way

00:27:20.549 --> 00:27:23.029
that you can love me is just put a heart emoji

00:27:23.029 --> 00:27:26.130
back. And if I want to talk about it further,

00:27:26.970 --> 00:27:30.049
I promise I will reach out. But I just wanted

00:27:30.049 --> 00:27:34.099
someone to know. That is so interesting because

00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:36.059
I'm sure there's many people listening to this

00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:38.799
who think, well, I don't speak up because it's

00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.180
going to cause more angst, challenges, whatever,

00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:44.680
and not even thinking, number one, what that's

00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.339
doing to you physically, mentally, emotionally,

00:27:47.500 --> 00:27:49.680
right? It has this toll on us and ourselves,

00:27:49.819 --> 00:27:52.319
but it's... It is kind of selfish in the other

00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.380
sort of way, right? Because if the other person

00:27:54.380 --> 00:27:57.559
doesn't know or someone can't support you, it's

00:27:57.559 --> 00:27:59.859
not their fault if you're not sharing that information.

00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:02.200
So it's such an interesting perspective because

00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:04.019
I think so many people think of it from the other

00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:06.839
perspective of like, I'm just going to take care

00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.519
of myself. I'm protecting others. I'm supporting

00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:12.779
others. And you're doing the opposite. You are.

00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:14.880
And I also get why you don't want to share with

00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.890
other people. Right, like how many of us have

00:28:17.890 --> 00:28:21.390
friends who well -intentioned friends end up

00:28:21.390 --> 00:28:24.089
making it worse? Because they either make it

00:28:24.089 --> 00:28:26.970
about themselves or they misinterpret what you've

00:28:26.970 --> 00:28:29.470
said or they're that then you have to hold space

00:28:29.470 --> 00:28:31.710
for them and you're like actually This is my

00:28:31.710 --> 00:28:33.930
issue in the first place. Why are we now? Why

00:28:33.930 --> 00:28:38.259
are we reverse roles? We don't all have through

00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:41.440
maximum emotional intelligence, which is why

00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.220
I'm also saying to the extent that you have an

00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:47.660
idea of how people can best support you, sharing

00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:52.099
it with them, like just put a heart emoji, actually

00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:55.140
increases the likelihood they can support you.

00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.539
And this is my lawyer brain where it's also a

00:28:58.539 --> 00:29:01.380
matter of risk mitigation, right? I've told you,

00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:03.380
I don't want to talk about it. I've told you,

00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:05.980
you can text me an emoji if you don't follow

00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:09.759
that. I'm not gonna go any further. That's so

00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:11.480
true and it's funny because I can think of that

00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:13.640
even with my husband there would be things maybe

00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.519
happening at work right where I want to just

00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:19.119
vent and get it out and he's a problem solver

00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.619
so he would start well you should do this or

00:29:21.619 --> 00:29:23.839
you and I'd be like so then I'd stop telling

00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:26.299
him and and of course it was good intention on

00:29:26.299 --> 00:29:27.920
his part so I at one point I was like you know

00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.019
what I just need you listen please don't tell

00:29:30.019 --> 00:29:32.779
me how to do it and again he was trying to be

00:29:32.779 --> 00:29:35.099
helpful but I'm like just you're stressing me

00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:38.000
out more I don't want to I just want to I just

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.880
want to get out there completely and in all fairness

00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:43.900
in my marriage the roles are swapped so much

00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:46.180
so that my husband has had to be like this is

00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:49.059
a just listen moment like don't try to fix it

00:29:49.059 --> 00:29:51.819
I was like got it but but you're missing this

00:29:51.819 --> 00:29:54.059
this factor right like I'm a communication expert

00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:56.880
I could help you here and it is also just letting

00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.839
go of everyone needs to learn and grow in their

00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.380
own time Which is deeply uncomfortable because

00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:07.099
I would prefer they do it on my time, right?

00:30:10.220 --> 00:30:12.980
So true and it's a problem -solving piece right

00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:15.359
like and I can be guilty of that too and especially

00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:17.380
with kids I think it's really easy where you

00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:21.440
want to solve everything for your children and

00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.000
kind of I need a little silence in my life in

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.700
that situation. And silence in that moment. I

00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:31.680
want to be really clear that voice isn't just

00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.700
what you say. Voice is how you move through the

00:30:33.700 --> 00:30:38.579
world. And voice is you having the agency to

00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:42.279
choose how you're showing up. And so for anyone

00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:44.640
being like, but I don't want to share with someone,

00:30:45.700 --> 00:30:50.630
OK, that's your choice. I do want to increase

00:30:50.630 --> 00:30:53.109
the likelihood that if you wanted to share with

00:30:53.109 --> 00:30:56.809
someone, you could, because none of us can do

00:30:56.809 --> 00:31:00.049
life alone. But at the end of the day, no one

00:31:00.049 --> 00:31:02.890
can make those choices for you but you, because

00:31:02.890 --> 00:31:04.630
no one knows what you're carrying, no one knows

00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:06.569
the risks, no one knows what's really keeping

00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:10.410
you up at night. And so for everyone who's just

00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:12.109
like, you just got to speak up more, you just

00:31:12.109 --> 00:31:15.109
got to do this, the well -intentioned problem

00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:19.480
solving, it's... Hey, friend, hey, Betsy, like,

00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:23.180
how can I best support you? No, that's great.

00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:25.380
And I joked in the beginning about the loud part,

00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:28.539
right, versus the silence. And when loud and

00:31:28.539 --> 00:31:31.160
lifted doesn't mean being the loudest person

00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.579
in the room or the person being demanding, you

00:31:33.579 --> 00:31:36.559
know, banging their fist on the table. That's

00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.980
not what being loud is. It's just... Talking

00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:40.839
and contributing and speaking up and supporting

00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:42.799
other people when it when it makes sense, but

00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:46.119
everyone's voice is different But just knowing

00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:49.160
where you are and what you want is is part of

00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:51.339
that not being silent, right? And I think it's

00:31:51.339 --> 00:31:53.640
we get so black and white with what that means,

00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:55.200
but it's looking at it from a whole different

00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.759
perspective It's not just okay. Go to a meeting

00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:01.559
and just learn on everything that comes To your

00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.079
head, right? Like this is not anywhere close

00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.160
to what's being suggested when we talk about

00:32:06.269 --> 00:32:09.009
and learn silence. Totally. Let me offer two

00:32:09.009 --> 00:32:12.170
things. One is a practical phrase, because I

00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:13.630
know some people are like, okay, well, I know

00:32:13.630 --> 00:32:15.029
what I think and what I need, but literally,

00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:17.970
like, how do I inject into the conversation?

00:32:18.430 --> 00:32:21.170
My favorite go -to phrase is from where I sit.

00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:23.849
From where I sit, that timeline doesn't make

00:32:23.849 --> 00:32:26.869
sense. From where I sit, I don't understand how

00:32:26.869 --> 00:32:32.819
this event is financially viable. But from where

00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:35.380
I sit is just my vantage point, viewpoint of

00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:40.980
the world from my home office or cubicle or I'm

00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:43.420
in Boston versus in Bangalore or whatever it

00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:45.700
is. And it very naturally begs the question,

00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:47.299
well, what do things look like from where you

00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:51.099
sit? And then it is conversation rather than

00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:53.019
conflict, because we've each got different pieces

00:32:53.019 --> 00:32:56.490
of the puzzle, rather than you know, none of

00:32:56.490 --> 00:32:58.950
us are omnipotent. So none of us have like a

00:32:58.950 --> 00:33:02.910
hold on the truth. And from where I sit, just

00:33:02.910 --> 00:33:05.529
to use that, from where I sit, I actually see

00:33:05.529 --> 00:33:11.829
loud as fully being yourself. Right? I am aware

00:33:11.829 --> 00:33:14.849
of who I am, my gifts, skills, talents in the

00:33:14.849 --> 00:33:18.289
world, the things that I want and I need to live

00:33:18.289 --> 00:33:21.490
a sustainable, healthy, meaningful life. And

00:33:21.490 --> 00:33:25.250
I am fully living into that. That to me is loud.

00:33:25.470 --> 00:33:27.609
That to me is power. I might have to use some

00:33:27.609 --> 00:33:30.109
of those words on the website. You're welcome.

00:33:30.769 --> 00:33:37.190
Thank you so much. Because we are so often told

00:33:37.190 --> 00:33:39.849
to be loud, but not all of us are loud. Not all

00:33:39.849 --> 00:33:42.650
of us are Tony Robbins. Sure. Right. Absolutely.

00:33:42.829 --> 00:33:44.730
No, thankfully that would not work if the whole

00:33:44.730 --> 00:33:47.390
world was like that. So if a woman's listening

00:33:47.390 --> 00:33:50.089
to this and she's like, wow, okay, I definitely

00:33:50.089 --> 00:33:54.569
have been to What's the step? Like, what are

00:33:54.569 --> 00:33:56.950
the baby steps? How do we just start to make

00:33:56.950 --> 00:34:00.410
progress to find that voice? Yeah, we've talked

00:34:00.410 --> 00:34:02.970
about a couple of options. One is those internal

00:34:02.970 --> 00:34:05.609
questions to re -nurture your voice. What do

00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:09.409
I think? What do I need? Second, you can't figure

00:34:09.409 --> 00:34:11.170
it out in theory. You can only figure it out

00:34:11.170 --> 00:34:14.250
in action. So do a small experiment. That could

00:34:14.250 --> 00:34:16.329
be dinner with friends. That could be at the

00:34:16.329 --> 00:34:19.349
coffee shop. That could be you would normally

00:34:19.349 --> 00:34:22.070
just let things go, but you're going to write

00:34:22.070 --> 00:34:26.510
back an email, you know, from where I sit, this

00:34:26.510 --> 00:34:29.329
timeline doesn't make sense. What do things look

00:34:29.329 --> 00:34:31.369
like from where you sit or why does it make sense

00:34:31.369 --> 00:34:36.369
from your perspective? Right. And each of those

00:34:36.369 --> 00:34:40.610
experiments really is a fact -finding data gathering

00:34:40.610 --> 00:34:45.340
exploration. Often our worst fears are, you know,

00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:49.539
they're going to hate me. They're going to CC

00:34:49.539 --> 00:34:51.679
in everyone in the world on an email thread.

00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.960
My career is over. Our brains, as a matter of

00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.440
human survival, go toward worst case scenario.

00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.139
What we don't factor in is best case scenario,

00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:04.880
in part because we can't even see it. And for

00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.780
me, this is incredibly personal because I became

00:35:07.780 --> 00:35:10.019
the first nonwhite partner at this global leadership

00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:12.840
development firm based on teaching other people's

00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.199
content. And I also realized that the content

00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.300
we were teaching around how to negotiate, have

00:35:17.300 --> 00:35:19.260
difficult conversations, give and receive feedback,

00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:24.280
it worked for some. And there are still lots

00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:26.440
of people who wouldn't negotiate, have difficult

00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:28.599
conversations, give and receive feedback, which

00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:31.300
is what led me to say, what gives? What are we

00:35:31.300 --> 00:35:34.119
missing? And what we're missing is this learned

00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:36.260
silence and the factor of how we silence each

00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:39.380
other. And there's a whole story about how the

00:35:39.380 --> 00:35:43.739
book came together, but I am now living, including

00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:46.159
real costs. I'm no longer a partner at that firm,

00:35:46.699 --> 00:35:50.000
which maybe explains everything everyone needs

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.380
to know to fill in the details. But I also could

00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:57.039
not imagine the life that I get to live now.

00:35:57.900 --> 00:36:02.960
Loud, fully aligned. Being able to craft a life

00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.139
that actually works for me and my family and

00:36:05.139 --> 00:36:08.760
my values. I couldn't see that when I was in

00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:12.340
the middle of it. It was just an inkling of there's

00:36:12.340 --> 00:36:14.900
something here. There's something here that people

00:36:14.900 --> 00:36:18.320
aren't talking about. What's the next step? And

00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.000
especially when the costs feel high of not taking

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.019
the right step, we can get in analysis paralysis

00:36:24.019 --> 00:36:27.239
of I don't know. I'm just going to stay stock

00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:31.889
versus do something. Try something. Don't obsess

00:36:31.889 --> 00:36:35.530
about the next right step, just what's the next

00:36:35.530 --> 00:36:38.570
experiment? Because each experiment, each step

00:36:38.570 --> 00:36:40.469
inherently gives you a different vantage point

00:36:40.469 --> 00:36:43.170
of the world, gives you new data, and you figure

00:36:43.170 --> 00:36:46.110
it out from there. We are inherently incredibly

00:36:46.110 --> 00:36:49.750
capable people. So for someone who's thinking,

00:36:49.989 --> 00:36:52.570
how do I find and use my voice, ask yourself

00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:56.090
those questions, try the experiments, read the

00:36:56.090 --> 00:36:59.550
book, Unlearning Silence, and really don't do

00:36:59.550 --> 00:37:05.300
it alone. Because you may think, as I did, look,

00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.320
there's no one who gets me. There's no one who's

00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:09.719
living my life. And that is true. There's no

00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:12.579
one who is living your exact set of factors.

00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:15.900
But you are not alone in caring everything for

00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:18.679
everyone else. Maybe even having a life that

00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:22.460
looks amazing on the outside, but isn't clicking

00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:27.380
or fulfilling deep soul fulfillment on the inside.

00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:33.000
And you are not imprisoned. You're not trapped

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:37.380
in that life as long as you keep choosing a next

00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:41.219
step. That is coupled with what we talked about

00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:44.760
earlier of let ourselves evolve. I never intended

00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.360
to be an author. I actually don't advise it.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:52.260
But it is also an incredibly powerful way to

00:37:52.260 --> 00:37:54.579
share ideas with the world. And if you're doing

00:37:54.579 --> 00:37:57.380
something that you think matters, you take on

00:37:57.380 --> 00:37:59.539
different identities and your life has different

00:37:59.539 --> 00:38:02.840
trappings than you might have thought of. And

00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:07.800
we're asking what could go wrong and we're not

00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.340
asking what could go right. And we're focused

00:38:10.340 --> 00:38:12.599
as a matter of using our voices. What's the benefit

00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.599
of silence and what's the cost of speaking up?

00:38:15.630 --> 00:38:18.449
But the other set of questions is, what's the

00:38:18.449 --> 00:38:20.429
cost of silence? And we talked about some real

00:38:20.429 --> 00:38:24.650
ones today, physically, emotionally, relationally,

00:38:24.909 --> 00:38:27.369
happiness -wise. And also, what are the benefits

00:38:27.369 --> 00:38:30.289
of using your voice? Because the benefits of

00:38:30.289 --> 00:38:33.530
using your voice are out there, but right now

00:38:33.530 --> 00:38:36.550
they're theoretical. And I hope that they become

00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:40.940
a reality. Oh my gosh, that was... an amazing

00:38:40.940 --> 00:38:44.039
recap of all the important points and and and

00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.079
I love that you're you're right it's steps and

00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.119
I think it can be very paralyzing because somebody

00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:51.079
thinks they have to change everything tomorrow

00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.860
and it's just taking steps and you're gonna mess

00:38:53.860 --> 00:38:55.860
up right that's the other part there's you're

00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:57.900
gonna speak up on something or own something

00:38:57.900 --> 00:39:00.000
and then be like oh okay that didn't go as It's

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.539
okay. That doesn't mean you stop doing it. So,

00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:04.460
you know, it's just it's this process and this

00:39:04.460 --> 00:39:07.480
evolution. And I love how you recap that and

00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:09.940
explain that because it's so important. And again,

00:39:10.059 --> 00:39:12.139
no one's perfect. We're all struggling with this

00:39:12.139 --> 00:39:16.300
in some kind of space. So just figuring out how

00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:18.539
to identify the problem, number one, and then

00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:20.539
making those changes moving forward, I think

00:39:20.539 --> 00:39:23.579
is beautiful. So thank you so much for that.

00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:26.679
Where can people find more information and connect

00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:30.280
with you? Yeah. And your book, of course. ElaineLynnHaring

00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.860
.com or the same handle, Elaine Lynn Haring on

00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:37.039
LinkedIn, Instagram, Substack. And the book,

00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.599
Unlearning Silence, How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash

00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:42.059
Talent and Live More Fully is available wherever

00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:44.719
books are sold. Amazing. I love it so much. And

00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:46.500
we will link all that in the show notes as well.

00:39:46.820 --> 00:39:48.539
So Elaine, thank you so much for being here and

00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:50.460
thank you for sharing your story too. Thanks

00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:52.969
for having me. I absolutely love this conversation

00:39:52.969 --> 00:39:55.630
because Elaine gave us such a different and much

00:39:55.630 --> 00:39:58.409
more useful way to think about silence. It's

00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:01.110
not simply sitting quietly in a meeting. It is

00:40:01.110 --> 00:40:03.909
the way we minimize our opinions, ignore our

00:40:03.909 --> 00:40:07.349
own needs, avoid asking for help, or become so

00:40:07.349 --> 00:40:09.469
focused on taking care of everyone else that

00:40:09.469 --> 00:40:12.630
we eventually lose touch with ourselves. And

00:40:12.630 --> 00:40:15.130
the solution is not to wake up tomorrow and suddenly

00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:17.659
say everything you have ever thought. out loud.

00:40:18.179 --> 00:40:20.380
Please do not blame Elaine or me when this goes

00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:24.139
sideways. It starts smaller. Ask yourself, what

00:40:24.139 --> 00:40:27.539
do I think? What do I need? Try expressing a

00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:30.300
preference when the stakes are low. Use Elaine's

00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:33.440
phrase, from where I sit, when you need to offer

00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:35.699
a different perspective. Let someone know what

00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:37.659
support actually looks like instead of hoping

00:40:37.659 --> 00:40:40.469
they figure it out. Every one of those small

00:40:40.469 --> 00:40:42.710
actions gives you another piece of evidence that

00:40:42.710 --> 00:40:45.070
you can use your voice, remain connected to the

00:40:45.070 --> 00:40:48.230
people around you, and still be okay. You can

00:40:48.230 --> 00:40:50.250
learn more about Elaine, her work, and her book

00:40:50.250 --> 00:40:52.949
on learning silence at elaneherring .com. We'll

00:40:52.949 --> 00:40:55.710
also link everything in the show notes. And as

00:40:55.710 --> 00:40:58.630
always, lead louder, grow stronger, and don't

00:40:58.630 --> 00:40:59.289
do it alone.