Hinge Moments & Hustle: Building a Bold Career with Gwen Wiscount

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Welcome to Loud and Lifted. I'm your host, Betsy

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Hamm, and today's guest is someone I've known

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for nearly two decades, and I knew back then

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she was going places. Gwen was count as a powerhouse

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who's built a career across sales strategy and

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leadership in some of the most male -dominated

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industries out there. In this episode, Gwen shares

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what it means to build a strong foundation early

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in your career, how to turn your life's transitions

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into launch pads, and why asking for what you

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want is a non -negotiable skill. She shares the

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hinge philosophy, those small moments and choices

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that swing big doors. It's something everybody

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needs in their playbook. Whether you're just

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getting started, pivoting, or pushing for your

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next level, this episode will fire you up to

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bet on yourself with confidence. Welcome Gwen

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to Loud and Lifted. Thank you so much for being

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here. Thank you so much for having me. It's so

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good to see you. Yes, you too. I feel like I'm

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gonna feel really old doing this episode because

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we have to go back to the beginning of our relationship

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was 17 years ago and you were the intern on my

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team and I was also maternally we were just talking

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about so that feels like a lifetime ago and here

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we are with this amazing career that you've had

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over the last 17 years. But it feels like yesterday,

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right? It does. And it's so funny because while

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I was only the promotions intern for a summer,

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so roughly four months, I was obviously part

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of the H &R brand, the Hershey and Tim resorts

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brand for a little bit longer than that prior

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to that internship. But it's so funny now that

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my current role in what we're building is in

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person. I tend to always go back to a lot of

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those experiences that I learned 17 years ago

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in those early days of being in the seat of a

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small intern in this massive company and learning

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from all these incredible people around me. That's

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amazing. I love that you're still going back

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to things from that long ago. Well, and I go

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back to that long ago. I mean, through my career,

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I've had so many different interns on our teams

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and, you know, there's the great, amazing, there's

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the maybe not so great. But you stood out even

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17 years ago when you started and we're trying

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to keep you on my team. Like, just stay here.

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We'll find a job for you. Because you were this

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amazing rock star, even when you were 21, 22,

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looking at you. It's kind of like, all right.

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this girl's going to be going places. So when

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you go back to that time, like, you know, what

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were you thinking as you had a great internship,

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you did other internships, like going back to

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that time in your 20s? Were you like, I'm going

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to go set the world on fire? Like, what was your

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thought process even back then? Yeah, I think

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Looking back, I actually switched my major in

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college to marketing at that point in time and

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I applied for that role. I remember I was selected

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out of I think like 120 applications, I was told

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by HR. It was almost like I've been given this

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incredible opportunity. I felt honored to have

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the opportunity, but then I also felt this not

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pressure, but excitement to take it and make

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it. what I wanted it to be by all of these opportunities

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and these people around me. So when I took the

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role and I think just like the day to day of

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the role, I was, I was this sponge of, you know,

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on day two, JB was like, Hey, we're not going

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to do a tour of the park. You're going to learn

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about radio promotions and you're going to be

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like running that for us now. I had no idea.

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I had no idea what I was doing, right? No one

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actually does, but it was a nice opportunity

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to be given a lot of responsibility at such a

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young age, then that trust and confidence that

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I was capable for taking on this big responsibility

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on behalf of this massive brand. But I also think

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as part of that, I was able to have that confidence,

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yes, from experiences before, from I was an athlete

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growing up, so it was... I was always around

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coaches that believed in me, pushed me, allowed

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me to continue to exercise who I naturally was.

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But with that in mind, I think that the one thing

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that I always kind of mentally go back to at

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my time at Hershey is, that was the, again, I've

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been now working, working, I said quote working,

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as far as post -grad or post -degree, Hershey

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was the only time that actually had female executives

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around me. Like that's crazy, right? you were

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running, you were the director of promotions.

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And then of course, the infamous, your episode

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number one, Kim Schaller, the sales and marketing

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rockstar that she is, this powerhouse she was

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leading. She was at the helm of this massive

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ship that we were running. And I think just walking

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in every day, the excitement of what was there,

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but also the excitement that everyone had around

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us and building this brand and not just building

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the brand, but Almost like this gravitational

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pull that Kim has about her, I think almost emulated

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down to everyone else in the department to almost

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then rise to the occasion. I wanted to do good

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work to make you look good in your role as director

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of promotions. You, and I'm not going to speak

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for you, but likely went to do good work to...

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uplift Kim and carry out her vision for what

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she wanted this to be. I really felt that while

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I was there. I think that was one of the things

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that I really latched onto and became passionate

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about. Again, doing quality work, doing good

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work, but also at the end of the day, your product

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is a definition and representation of yourself.

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Exactly. I wanted to leave there and be like,

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I did this, people can speak highly of me. I'm

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proud of what I've done. That's amazing that

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you realize that at 21 or 22 because there's

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women a lot older with a lot more experience

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who still don't realize it's about making your

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team look good, whether they're reporting to

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you or the person you report to. It's making

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people look good around you. It also makes you

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look good too, but it's a team effort almost

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all the time. Absolutely. It's that leveling

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up or rather managing up that I think a lot of

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you almost like you don't know what that word

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is at the time, right? But it's, it's, you know,

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they always say like a mentorship, like bring

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people along with you. But it's also like who's

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ahead of you that you can keep like propping

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up in a way too. No, it's so important. So when

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you left Hershey, it's interesting you said that

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you've been in I mean, you've pretty much been

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a male dominated industries the rest of your

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career. So how's that been with you with your

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fire and your energy and your excitement going

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into industries where it's you're surrounded

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by men? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Right after

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Hershey, I then took a sales role in a very unsexy

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industry. I was selling containers for regulated

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material. Of course, industrial, chemical, manufacturing,

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predominantly male. Then after that, I built

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a company with some colleagues, and I was the

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only female partner. Also, our clients were founders

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in C -Level, which predominantly are men. So

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I quickly in my 20s majority of my career has

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been either selling to men, working for men,

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or consulting men. And it's almost like one of

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those things when people would ask me, who are

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your mentors? I actually didn't know what to

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say because I feel like the right answer would

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have been Betsy and it's you you I think of you

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more of a role model versus a mentor because

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you weren't really part of my day to day but

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you were this vision as well as Kim of like what

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a female executive looks like right but when

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I think back to kind of those 20s my 20s and

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obviously now I'm in a different position not

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really male dominated which is great but during

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that time I think The thing that I got really

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excited about was I didn't really look at it

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as male or female. I just looked at it as what

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can I do to continue to show up and keep putting

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myself in the room at the table? I have a voice.

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I have a point of view. and making sure that

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was always part of the conversation. So I think

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with that, it was a lot of confidence building

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out of the gate, very much like take it till

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you make it in a way. And I think back to when

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we started my first company, Full Funnel, I was

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26, walking into these clients who were typically

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men and typically had very prominent degrees

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of MIT, Harvard, and they were the founder of

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these companies. I, this sales and marketing

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girl, was there to tell them how to take their

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company to market and run it. Who the heck was

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I? Oh my gosh. It was one of those things where

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it's like you had to just keep doing the thing.

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I was not an expert in their field or I was not

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an expert in their company, but I was an expert

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at sales and marketing and continuing to double

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down in what I knew and being confident in my

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competence. And it's almost like the areas that

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I wasn't as confident in, the repetition of doing

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and the repetition of like asking questions,

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you know, being a self -starter and a reader

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and finding out the answers that kind of allowed

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me to eventually have both like the confidence

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and competence to do my job very well. And I

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would also say that a lot of my experiences in

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those roles that I had, it also came from a very

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like growth mindset, right? I always, you know,

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I say like, knowledge is power. And I always

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made sure to, you know, take off, take every

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opportunity and like identify as how can this,

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how can this lead to experience? And then like,

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how does that experience like shape me? I always

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look back to even today, I can tell you every

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single hinge moment that led me to what I'm doing

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exactly right now. And it was typically because,

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yeah, so there was actually a really cool book,

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it's called hinge. And it's all about how It's

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kind of the same premise of the alchemist, right?

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So the alchemist, the thought and theory is essentially

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they're omens. And if you're aware of the omens,

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you can take advantage of those omens. Whereas

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with the hinge moments, it's almost like you're

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given an opportunity to open the door. It's a

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hinge moment to start something new. So my first

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job, I had a mentor who was a male and I looked

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to him a lot for kind of telling him exactly

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what I wanted to do. I'm like, I want to move

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to Boston. He's like, make a plan, go for it,

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do it. Hinge moment. I then did that. I then

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told him, I really want to go work for a startup.

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I know it sounds crazy, but I want to go work

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for a startup. Two weeks later, hinge moment.

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He's like, hey, I'm starting a sales and marketing

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company. Do you want in? I was like, yep. Two

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weeks later, we started the company. So it's

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almost like if I didn't take that job in Florida,

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my first right out of college, I wouldn't have

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met my mentor at the time, who's a client of

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mine, I wouldn't have gotten the opportunity

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at 26 to build a company to get this insane amount

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of experience, right? 45 different companies,

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26 different industries, taking companies to

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market, products to market, sales, services,

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products, SaaS, B2B, that was kind of my main

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game, but you can't get that amount of experience.

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Right. Oh my gosh. most times in a career, let

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alone six years, right? So I think of that opportunity

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led me then to my next one. So it's almost like

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these hinge moments of being able to kind of

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in reverse go back and kind of map out, I made

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this decision or I made this choice and that

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led to X and that it led to Y and that it led

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to Z, right? So yeah, a lot of my 20s was kind

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of those hinge moments and kind of launching

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me in now truly this kind of career I'm in now.

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And which is crazy because people get, I think,

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hung up, especially when they're young in their

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20s, like, oh, I want to be a director. I want

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to be whatever. I want to be VP. They get very

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focused on the title versus the actual experience

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or the industry. So it seems like your hinge

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moments were like you just wanted to do something

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different. You wanted a different experience.

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You were involved in a different industry. You

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were just trying to build that foundation of

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what could potentially happen in the future.

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I always think back to my 22 -year -old self

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when I met with you at, is it called the Hershey

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Pantry? No, not Hershey Pantry. I forget what

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it was called, but we got coffee. On that day,

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I was given two job opportunities, my dream job

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at Hershey, which they basically created for

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me, and the opportunity to go work for a company

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in Florida. I have never been to Tampa, that's

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where it was located. I was so stressed out,

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22, I'm like, this is going to be like. monumental,

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I have to make this big choice. And remember

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you said matter of fact, I think Kennedy was

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probably like this. Yeah, sorry. Kennedy was

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probably like in the carrier. Oh, completely,

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completely. And yeah, and I just remember you

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saying, well, nothing's permanent. And it kind

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of just like rolled off your tongue. So like,

00:13:15.139 --> 00:13:16.960
naturally, you're like, nothing's permanent.

00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:19.279
Go. If you don't like it, you can always come

00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:21.039
back. Right. And that was kind of the same advice

00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:23.580
that my mom had given me. And I think that like,

00:13:23.659 --> 00:13:27.179
because I, that was my foundation, like in the

00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:29.899
early stages of my career that like, you can

00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:33.740
take risks, just try something on, make a choice,

00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:35.879
see what it looks like. If you don't like it,

00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:38.100
you can always change it. Right. And I think

00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:41.620
just like having the ability to almost have that,

00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.399
almost like exhale. Sure. Right. Like this, the

00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.379
job that you get at 22 is not the job you're

00:13:47.379 --> 00:13:49.259
going to have probably two years from there.

00:13:49.289 --> 00:13:51.850
rather five years from now, right? And in my

00:13:51.850 --> 00:13:54.610
case, 17 years, right? That's just not how it

00:13:54.610 --> 00:13:57.149
works, right? But so often we think that it's

00:13:57.149 --> 00:14:00.049
this big decision we have to make, and it's life

00:14:00.049 --> 00:14:02.549
or death, and it's, well, no. What do you want

00:14:02.549 --> 00:14:05.070
the next two years to look like, or even maybe

00:14:05.070 --> 00:14:07.049
five years? Don't think about, I hate five -year

00:14:07.049 --> 00:14:08.049
plans. I can't even tell you what I'm going to

00:14:08.049 --> 00:14:10.090
do in five years from now. We're going to just

00:14:10.090 --> 00:14:12.649
do next two years, right? Yep. That's a great

00:14:12.649 --> 00:14:15.690
plan. Yeah. People feel stuck, and I get that.

00:14:15.690 --> 00:14:19.019
Sometimes you are stuck, but it's not. permanent

00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.360
from a job perspective. And I think nowadays,

00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.860
I feel like maybe early in my career, people

00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:26.179
were employees were more loyal to companies.

00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:28.360
Like once you got to a certain company, you weren't

00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:30.039
going to leave, you're going to retire from there

00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.320
and be there 25, 30 years. I remember even being

00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.860
21, 22 and be like, I cannot stay at the same

00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:37.500
place for 25, 30 years. Some people can, and

00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:39.720
that's great. But I think especially these younger

00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:44.269
generations, it's the diversity and mixing it

00:14:44.269 --> 00:14:46.610
up and not feeling stuck. And it's a lot easier

00:14:46.610 --> 00:14:48.549
now to work for companies that maybe you can

00:14:48.549 --> 00:14:51.330
do remote or hybrid or whatnot, but yeah, it's

00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:54.110
not permanent from a job perspective. So if you're

00:14:54.110 --> 00:14:56.450
somewhere you don't like it, then look for something

00:14:56.450 --> 00:14:59.649
else. I mean, you have to be doing what's right

00:14:59.649 --> 00:15:02.990
for you, for sure. So kind of tying into your

00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:05.610
20s, you actually had a post on LinkedIn, I think

00:15:05.610 --> 00:15:07.809
it was just last week or so, and I loved it.

00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.600
you talked about a book that's called The Defining

00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:12.940
Decade and how it struck a chord with you. Now

00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:14.779
that you're in your, can we say your late thirties?

00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.419
But 38. Oh my gosh. See, again, that makes me

00:15:19.419 --> 00:15:22.659
old because whatever. But anyway, but that was

00:15:22.659 --> 00:15:25.200
something that impacted you 15 years ago. So

00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.200
talk to us about that book and how that thought

00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.720
process and how you give that book to people

00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:33.179
graduating still to this day. Yeah. Yeah. I,

00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:36.090
I will. give it to everyone who's graduating,

00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:39.009
I will also talk about it quite regularly, because

00:15:39.009 --> 00:15:41.789
I think that it's an important message that we

00:15:41.789 --> 00:15:45.370
can just plant into the minds of those early

00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:46.750
grads, or just again, like people starting on

00:15:46.750 --> 00:15:48.909
their 20s. The book The Defining Decade is all

00:15:48.909 --> 00:15:51.629
about how essentially your 20s is the foundation

00:15:51.629 --> 00:15:54.950
of your career, and kind of what you think of

00:15:54.950 --> 00:15:56.730
as the definition of success. And the reality

00:15:56.730 --> 00:15:58.610
is that that's different for everyone, right?

00:15:59.049 --> 00:16:03.600
At that time in my life, it was Having a good

00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.679
job that was defined by title autonomy. So not,

00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:10.620
I actually left corporate. I did a lot of internships

00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:13.460
in corporate, but I was like, I want more control.

00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:16.620
I want more autonomy. I want to be able to move

00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:18.879
the ball on my own without all this red tape.

00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.100
And I actually have been mainly in startups since

00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:24.220
then because of that. But when I think about

00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:27.919
my 20s, it really is that foundation of how can

00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.259
you set yourself up in your 20s? to again be

00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:34.899
a sponge get as much experience as possible to

00:16:34.899 --> 00:16:37.659
almost like set yourself up for your 30s 40s

00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.700
and beyond and it was all about if and there's

00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:43.879
no right or wrong way right it's not like oh

00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.299
you messed up your 20s you're behind but the

00:16:46.299 --> 00:16:49.179
book is all about if you do the due diligence

00:16:49.179 --> 00:16:52.299
and put your time and effort into again just

00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:54.279
being more intentional. That's really what it

00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:56.919
is. It's being more intentional with your career

00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:00.200
and the opportunities that you're taking or looking

00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.960
for. And again, that continued forward momentum,

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:08.119
right? I think that is really what, if I go back,

00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:10.559
it's always that forward momentum, saying yes

00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.180
to opportunities, communicating. I always say,

00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.039
you don't get what you don't ask for. If you

00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.190
want something, tell someone. so that more people

00:17:20.190 --> 00:17:23.049
know and they can help you. And again, every

00:17:23.049 --> 00:17:25.630
single job I've had, it's because I told someone

00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:28.869
what I wanted. And then it was, oh, you should

00:17:28.869 --> 00:17:30.369
talk to so and so, or hey, do you want to start

00:17:30.369 --> 00:17:32.450
this company? Or I'm actually starting a company,

00:17:32.490 --> 00:17:34.470
do you want to come with me? And really that's

00:17:34.470 --> 00:17:36.569
what it is. It's being intentional in those years

00:17:36.569 --> 00:17:40.170
to gain experience that you believe will help

00:17:40.170 --> 00:17:43.029
you one day. I love that. That's such a good

00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:44.809
point. And part of that too, I think that you've

00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:46.779
always been good at is that connection in the

00:17:46.779 --> 00:17:48.960
relationship. So you were telling somebody that

00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:50.799
you want to do this, but it wasn't somebody who

00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.900
didn't have the ability to help you or connect

00:17:52.900 --> 00:17:55.079
the dots for you. So, you know, I think building

00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.420
those relationships at any point in your career

00:17:57.420 --> 00:17:59.420
is really important because then you can say,

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.279
Hey, I need help with this or do you know how

00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:04.019
I can get a job here or do this? So it's making

00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:06.240
those connections to help you connect the dots

00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.359
to that next adventure. Yeah, absolutely. And

00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.400
it's always and it echoes back to again, like

00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:13.980
that experience at Hershey, which is doing good

00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:17.279
work and having people it's not mentorship, but

00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.579
sponsorship, where how are people talking about

00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:23.779
you when you're not in the room? By doing that

00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:26.640
good work, by being top of mind, are they making

00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.259
the recommendations to others about you? Whether

00:18:29.259 --> 00:18:30.940
or not they have the opportunity or not, but

00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:33.599
someone else might. I have people all the time

00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.680
reaching out to me, past employees, past clients,

00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:40.180
hey Gwen, I'm applying for this job, you're connected

00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:44.869
to so -and -so, can you make it in? Fun fact,

00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:47.230
that's life. That is career. If you want a job,

00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:51.309
find out. Well, that goes back to the exposure

00:18:51.309 --> 00:18:53.210
piece. At some point, we're going to have someone

00:18:53.210 --> 00:18:55.170
to talk on about pie, but I don't know if you

00:18:55.170 --> 00:18:57.109
were ever part of the pie conversations. That

00:18:57.109 --> 00:18:59.369
might have been after you left, but it's performance,

00:18:59.549 --> 00:19:02.650
image, and exposure, and that's your pie. Crazy

00:19:02.650 --> 00:19:04.710
from a research perspective, performance is the

00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:07.109
smallest piece of the pie. It's your image and

00:19:07.109 --> 00:19:09.789
your exposure. That's to your point. You could

00:19:09.789 --> 00:19:11.769
be doing an amazing job, but if nobody knows

00:19:11.769 --> 00:19:14.279
you're doing it, then - It doesn't matter. And

00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:16.039
you can probably think of people who tend to

00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.599
be women throughout your career who were rocking

00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.940
it, head down, getting stuff done, but nobody

00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.420
knew what they did because they just were behind

00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:26.740
the scenes. So making sure you can tell people

00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:29.500
what you're doing in a calm and confident way.

00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:31.420
You don't have to be cocky about it, but yeah,

00:19:31.420 --> 00:19:34.460
you got to have that exposure or it doesn't matter.

00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:37.079
Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if

00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.140
you don't get something because someone doesn't

00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:41.599
know that you've done the work or have the experience,

00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:45.539
You can't fault them for it. If anything, how

00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:49.380
did you not communicate your value or your experience

00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:52.119
to almost put your hat in the ring? It goes back

00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.640
to you don't get what you don't ask for. If you

00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.900
just think that someone's going to find you because

00:19:56.900 --> 00:19:58.700
you're doing great work, the reality is that's

00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:01.259
likely not going to happen. It may, but not for

00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:06.680
quite some time. Again, owning your destiny.

00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:11.299
It sounds so like woo -woo, but if you want something,

00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.819
go get it. If you want a job, if you want a certain

00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:17.079
thing, you have to be able to confidently say,

00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:21.380
this is why, this is how. And I always say, women

00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:23.059
hate talking about themselves, but you know what?

00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:26.400
Everyone else does it. Men love doing it. Why

00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.259
don't we do it? Right? Back to the Lean In book

00:20:30.259 --> 00:20:32.299
that was, you know, for, gosh, 20 years ago or

00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:35.220
so. Most women do not apply for jobs if they

00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:38.200
do not meet at least four other criteria. Whereas

00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.549
men, as long as they Align with two, they'll

00:20:41.549 --> 00:20:44.250
apply. Interesting. I do remember that. Yeah.

00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:46.690
Yeah. We think we have to hit all criteria and

00:20:46.690 --> 00:20:49.049
be perfect and that's definitely not the case.

00:20:49.230 --> 00:20:52.029
No. No. Just go ahead and be confident. Absolutely.

00:20:52.549 --> 00:20:54.690
Absolutely. People also, I would say even I've

00:20:54.690 --> 00:20:58.250
hired many people in my day. Yes, if you can

00:20:58.250 --> 00:20:59.730
do the job from front to back and you've done

00:20:59.730 --> 00:21:01.630
this a million times in so many other roles,

00:21:01.710 --> 00:21:04.549
that's fantastic. You can add value on day one.

00:21:06.089 --> 00:21:08.190
I kind of like when they come in a little bit

00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:11.609
greener so that there's opportunity to coach.

00:21:12.329 --> 00:21:14.230
And again, because I get a lot of fulfillment

00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:18.430
out of that, but again, be able to form what

00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:20.789
that would look like together versus them coming

00:21:20.789 --> 00:21:23.609
in with their experience and kind of, well, this

00:21:23.609 --> 00:21:25.410
is how it should be done versus, well, this is

00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:28.490
how we want it to be done together, right? It's

00:21:28.490 --> 00:21:31.349
a place of growth and collaboration versus kind

00:21:31.349 --> 00:21:34.009
of more kind of rigid, if you will. Right. Now

00:21:34.009 --> 00:21:36.839
that makes sense. So let's talk about what you're

00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.380
doing now. So now you're in your late 30s. So

00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:42.420
you built your foundation, you're out there.

00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:45.019
And now you're doing something totally different,

00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:47.799
essentially, than what you've done before. Yeah.

00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:52.039
Yes. So in 2023, I left my last company. I was

00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:53.880
the chief revenue officer of an ad tech company.

00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:55.799
And I kind of got the point in my life and I

00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.619
was like, what am I doing, right? Again, I've

00:21:58.619 --> 00:22:02.039
built this career that a lot of people look at

00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:05.740
me of adding value. They want me on their team.

00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.440
They want me to be part of building their companies.

00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.240
While I can do a lot of things, it doesn't mean

00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.380
I want to do that. I feel like I got to the point

00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:15.480
in my career of just because I can do certain

00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.539
things that people look as valuable, it doesn't

00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:21.000
mean I want to do that. I took a hard look of,

00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.000
okay, I've been doing this now for 15 years.

00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:25.380
What do I want this next chapter to look like?

00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:26.680
I always said, I'm like, I just want to burn

00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:28.559
it all down. I just want to burn it all down.

00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:30.200
The reality is you don't have to burn it all

00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.920
down. You can just pivot. Is it a hinge? Exactly.

00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.799
It's a hinge moment. I said, what I really want

00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:40.240
to do is I want to have impact. I made a lot

00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.380
of people, a lot of money. That's fantastic,

00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:46.740
but that can't be my thing. I cannot have these

00:22:46.740 --> 00:22:50.700
skills and just keep using it to pump money into

00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:53.660
this economy, if you will. I really shifted to,

00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:55.859
I want to create something that's impact for

00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:58.259
good. I want to be a force for good, is what

00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:02.039
I kept telling myself. So long story short, met

00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.819
up with a friend of mine and we've been building

00:23:04.819 --> 00:23:07.599
companies in parallel with each other. And I

00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.900
told her exactly what I was looking to do. She

00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:14.140
said, that's so funny. I am starting this thing

00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:16.809
and I think. You might actually be a good fit

00:23:16.809 --> 00:23:18.490
for this because we have very different skill

00:23:18.490 --> 00:23:21.269
sets. So fast forward, we started a company called

00:23:21.269 --> 00:23:24.190
Fabric. We are a network of social spaces where

00:23:24.190 --> 00:23:26.910
people come together to reconnect to real life.

00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:29.970
We're on a large mission to end the epidemic

00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:31.890
of loneliness that we are currently in right

00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:35.130
now. It is the largest health crisis facing our

00:23:35.130 --> 00:23:37.069
world today. If you go back to, I think it was

00:23:37.069 --> 00:23:39.009
like the seventies or eighties when like the

00:23:39.009 --> 00:23:42.150
smoking and smoking was the crisis. That is how,

00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:46.619
that's how big. this loneliness epidemic is of

00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:49.500
our generation and of our time. So what we're

00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:51.559
doing is we're creating social spaces for people

00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:54.059
to come together to find connection, find social

00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.420
connection, find a sense of community. build

00:23:56.420 --> 00:23:59.339
community, we have over 165 communities who call

00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:02.000
Fabric home. So that can range anything from

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.099
knitting clubs to book clubs to women in AI to

00:24:06.099 --> 00:24:09.160
financial literacy. And what happens is they

00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.700
host gatherings and bring people together around

00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:14.319
these shared interests or topics. So when you

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:16.319
walk into Fabric, people actually want to know,

00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:19.460
what's your name? What are you working on? You

00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:22.349
essentially are... making friends instantly.

00:24:23.789 --> 00:24:25.390
It's absolutely incredible what we're building.

00:24:25.670 --> 00:24:29.990
If you think about an employer perspective, you

00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:31.509
have your three pillars of health. You have your

00:24:31.509 --> 00:24:35.450
physical, your mental, and your social. If you

00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:38.430
think about physical, we all go to the gym, or

00:24:38.430 --> 00:24:42.150
we do workout, or we go for a walk. The physical

00:24:42.150 --> 00:24:44.950
health, that box is checked. If you look at mental

00:24:44.950 --> 00:24:46.750
health, exactly. If you look at mental health,

00:24:46.849 --> 00:24:50.009
there's already solves for that. Companies are

00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:53.369
now covering therapy. They're suggesting solutions

00:24:53.369 --> 00:24:56.029
and partnering with apps like Headspace for meditation

00:24:56.029 --> 00:24:59.089
or the Calm app. But if you look at that last

00:24:59.089 --> 00:25:02.430
pillar, which is social health or social connection,

00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:06.849
which is the contributor of the $460 billion

00:25:06.849 --> 00:25:11.190
impact of loneliness. And again, social health

00:25:11.190 --> 00:25:13.650
ripple effects onto your physical and your mental

00:25:13.650 --> 00:25:16.549
health. No one's solving for that. And that's

00:25:16.549 --> 00:25:21.539
really where we believe we are the industry creator

00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:27.000
of solving for so we perfect world what this

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.980
would look like is you look at your week you

00:25:29.980 --> 00:25:31.519
have scheduled out what days are going to be

00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:33.900
doing your workouts what days you're going to

00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:36.220
be maybe checking in with yourself daily meditation

00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:38.759
or a therapy session i have mine today at one

00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.200
but then it's are you scheduling that social

00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.900
connection right And let's clarify, that's in

00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:46.720
person. That's not on your phone. That's not

00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:49.099
on Instagram. This is like, put your phone down

00:25:49.099 --> 00:25:51.779
and actually have a conversation in person. Yes,

00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:54.839
it is. And that's the thing. People think that

00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:58.220
the pandemic is what led to this loneliness epidemic.

00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.420
And the reality is it's not. It was happening

00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:03.400
prior to that. And if you look at since the 70s,

00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.160
there has been a decline of clubs and communities

00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.500
in our neighborhoods and in our world today.

00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:10.740
That's obviously continued to go down. I remember

00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:14.269
going to dinner parties with my my parents' friends.

00:26:14.849 --> 00:26:17.089
I think I've maybe hosted one dinner party in

00:26:17.089 --> 00:26:20.470
my entire adult life. Like, why? So it just goes

00:26:20.470 --> 00:26:24.210
back to being intentional, again, being intentional

00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:26.990
in your 20s, but being intentional around finding

00:26:26.990 --> 00:26:30.430
community, building social connections, and again,

00:26:30.710 --> 00:26:33.490
having that muscle worked, right? It's not, oh,

00:26:33.549 --> 00:26:35.740
yeah, I'm with my family all the time. you can

00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:37.799
be in a family and be lonely, right? It goes

00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:39.480
back to like, are your own social needs being

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.200
met? And actually, I'm really excited. We're

00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.720
doing a it's a social connection summit. It was

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.059
kind of like my little brainchild I kind of thought

00:26:47.059 --> 00:26:49.670
of earlier this year. And we're finally It's

00:26:49.670 --> 00:26:52.069
coming to life two weeks from now at Fabric in

00:26:52.069 --> 00:26:54.269
New York. We have a location in Tribeca, a location

00:26:54.269 --> 00:26:56.710
in Dembo. We're going to be hosting it in Dembo.

00:26:57.009 --> 00:26:58.690
And the whole goal is to bring together a lot

00:26:58.690 --> 00:27:01.309
of other folks, both researchers, as well as

00:27:01.309 --> 00:27:03.769
we have a fantastic author who wrote a book called

00:27:03.769 --> 00:27:06.450
The Connection Cure, also participating. And

00:27:06.450 --> 00:27:08.769
it's all around social prescribing and kind of

00:27:08.769 --> 00:27:11.109
putting more of a light on that social connection

00:27:11.109 --> 00:27:14.910
element and being more intentional around like,

00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:18.579
what is your own social prescription? on a weekly

00:27:18.579 --> 00:27:22.660
basis. What should that look like? Very different

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:27.319
from what I've done before. Again, it goes back

00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:29.440
to like, this is meaningful work. I always joke

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.619
around. I get to wake up every day and solve

00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:33.539
loneliness. It's a little bit different than

00:27:33.539 --> 00:27:38.200
selling containers or whatever. I was like, you're

00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.759
doing what? Overcoming to work with me? So different.

00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.099
You're right. You're right. You're right. The

00:27:45.099 --> 00:27:47.380
other piece that too, I think of with teenagers,

00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.900
like maybe that can be phase two of this is because

00:27:49.900 --> 00:27:52.500
having teenagers, like, yes, they go to school,

00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:54.279
they're involved in sports, they do stuff, you

00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:56.460
know, randomly with friends, but they're so content

00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:58.380
coming home and laying on their bed and scrolling

00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:01.380
on TikTok for hours, days. Like, I mean, it's

00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:03.059
just, and sometimes then when you throw them

00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:05.519
in a social situation, people, they don't know,

00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:07.500
they're like awkward. I'm like, what the hell's

00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.680
wrong with you? Like they need to be. more socialized

00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.420
and we're pretty social family. We have a lot

00:28:14.420 --> 00:28:16.740
of stuff going on in friends and family. But

00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:19.680
the other week I was like, what the heck? I need

00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.380
to put you in more situations where you don't

00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:23.359
know people, where you have to ask questions

00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.240
and, I don't know, learn about people. So I'd

00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.059
like to request a teen program in Harrisburg,

00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:33.819
Pennsylvania, please. Yes. Fabric teen, fabric

00:28:33.819 --> 00:28:36.160
silver for the later generations. This is all

00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.099
part of our big, big plan. The silver, yes. That's

00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:40.500
interesting. Because again, like, loneliness

00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:45.740
is not, it's not one generation. Fabric members,

00:28:45.819 --> 00:28:49.019
our members range from mid -20s to mid -60s.

00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:52.240
The reality is that yes, that is the category

00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.140
or the generations that we're attracting, but

00:28:56.140 --> 00:29:01.200
there is absolutely an opportunity for pre -high

00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.460
school, if you will, and then obviously later

00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:09.380
stage. But again, think about that. They don't

00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:13.160
know how to socialize or just be Remember when

00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:16.140
you were younger and your parents made you order

00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:20.160
your own food? Oh, yeah. I always do that. It's

00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.680
so awkward. I have to talk to someone. Yeah,

00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.539
that's called being a human, right? Exactly.

00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:27.119
And if you fast forward to, again, your 20s,

00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.660
god, if you don't know how to talk to someone

00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:35.960
verbally, IRL, in person, and you're so used

00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:41.259
to just, again, a text or email or written. Right.

00:29:42.459 --> 00:29:44.640
That's only going to last so long. No, that's

00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.200
not good. So yeah, there needs to be an opportunity.

00:29:47.299 --> 00:29:49.680
And I would say that even with the younger generations,

00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:54.140
it's kind of cool some of the things that they're

00:29:54.140 --> 00:29:56.720
gravitating to. Like their new interest in point

00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.519
and shoot cameras. Oh, right. Well, everything

00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:00.200
comes back around, right? Exactly. We were talking

00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.359
about that earlier. The pendulum swings, and

00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:03.940
now we're going to go back to hopefully a little

00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:07.400
bit more anti -technology and go back to the

00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:09.099
old school days. Maybe I should have kept some

00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:14.569
of those cameras and DVD players. A CD. A CD,

00:30:14.809 --> 00:30:16.829
yes. Those did suck. Hopefully, they don't go

00:30:16.829 --> 00:30:19.930
back. Yeah. Yeah. But no, the goal is, again,

00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:23.150
let's start here, but then also know how can

00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:26.250
we even start sooner than that to create spaces

00:30:26.250 --> 00:30:28.910
for social connection. So that's, again, part

00:30:28.910 --> 00:30:31.450
of their habit, part of their routine, not this

00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:34.930
thing that they either A, don't know about, or

00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:39.390
B, they don't know how to solve it or where to

00:30:39.390 --> 00:30:42.940
go. or what that even looks like. That's awesome.

00:30:43.059 --> 00:30:44.740
I can't wait to hear updates on that. That is

00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:47.099
such a cool thing that you're involved in and

00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.799
making an impact in solving that loneliness issue.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.400
Who would have thought, right? That's just probably

00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.539
wasn't on your two -year plan, but here you are.

00:30:54.660 --> 00:30:58.319
That's pretty cool. Absolutely. Absolutely. I

00:30:58.319 --> 00:30:59.759
could talk to you all day, of course, but we're

00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.279
going to wrap here. Any parting advice or thoughts

00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:05.740
for our listeners that we haven't hit on yet?

00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:10.420
I would say be intentional again around who you

00:31:10.420 --> 00:31:13.359
surround yourself by. The fact that you and I

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:16.559
still have a relationship, I think I am so lucky

00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:19.779
to have. But again, that didn't happen by chance.

00:31:20.019 --> 00:31:23.400
That happened because I looked at you as someone

00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.660
who I wanted to become. And I knew that I had

00:31:26.660 --> 00:31:30.059
to continue to, again, put myself in front of

00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:32.500
you to gain that knowledge and get my mentorship.

00:31:33.879 --> 00:31:36.619
while I was in different states, not in Pennsylvania,

00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.200
but when I was in town checking in with you.

00:31:39.380 --> 00:31:41.559
That's literally how I got connected with my

00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:43.579
current co -founder, Jacqueline. Anytime I was

00:31:43.579 --> 00:31:46.599
in New York, her and I grabbed coffee. We didn't

00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:47.960
know that we were going to start a company one

00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:52.200
day. But again, that intentionality of having

00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.880
this epiphany of that social connection, right?

00:31:55.299 --> 00:31:58.319
The social connection of it all. But no, like

00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:01.140
I said, I feel really lucky to know you and to

00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:04.319
have this. continued mentorship and just connection

00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:06.480
with you. And it just gets getting more fun as

00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.599
we continue to, again, have different chapters

00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.160
of our careers and the evolution of what we're

00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.480
all becoming. Well, I'm so proud of you. You

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:15.319
have done amazing things and you'll continue

00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:17.700
to do amazing things. And yeah, I knew you had

00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:20.059
that spark in that fire when you were 21 and

00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:22.900
you have proven that was true. So congrats to

00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:24.779
you. And we'll have to check in. Well, I might

00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:26.160
have to talk more about the loneliness as you

00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.440
guys continue down this path. Yeah, creating

00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.619
community. I would love to because if you think

00:32:30.619 --> 00:32:33.500
about it, If you go back to the caveman days,

00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:37.640
women were in community all the time because

00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.799
the men were going and hunting and gathering.

00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:43.519
So women, that's why I feel like if you ask a

00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:44.920
woman, like, how many friends do you have? Like,

00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:47.279
we have a ton, right? There's a guy, how many

00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.900
friends they have. It's usually like a few. A

00:32:49.900 --> 00:32:52.619
few. That's true. A few. But it's, we, again,

00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:56.440
like, we're very good at creating community and

00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.460
connection together. And that's, you know, that's

00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:00.940
not by chance. That's where we essentially have

00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:03.240
come from. No, that's very true. And that's part

00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.420
of the whole Loud and Lifted initiative. It's

00:33:05.420 --> 00:33:07.500
creating community that's supportive of each

00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:09.460
other because sometimes you might have that personally

00:33:09.460 --> 00:33:11.599
but not professionally. So how do you continue

00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:14.160
to build around you people who are going to be

00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:15.980
your cheerleader and going to support you and

00:33:15.980 --> 00:33:18.420
help you with that exposure. So we're going to

00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.700
dominate the world together. Yay! Gwen, thank

00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:23.839
you so much for being here. Thank you so much

00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:25.400
for having me. I love this was a great start

00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:28.589
to the day. Thank you. Thank you. Gwen's story

00:33:28.589 --> 00:33:30.690
is a reminder that your 20s don't have to be

00:33:30.690 --> 00:33:33.309
perfect. They just have to be intentional. From

00:33:33.309 --> 00:33:35.750
internships and cross -country moves to boardrooms

00:33:35.750 --> 00:33:38.849
and business pivots, she's proof that small decisions

00:33:38.849 --> 00:33:42.250
made with courage compound into major impact.

00:33:42.869 --> 00:33:45.849
So take the risk, ask the question, make the

00:33:45.849 --> 00:33:48.670
move, and do it with a little bit of fire and

00:33:48.670 --> 00:33:52.460
a lot of intention. Thanks for tuning in to Loud

00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:54.619
and Lifted. If you like this episode, please

00:33:54.619 --> 00:33:57.019
share it with a friend, leave a comment or review,

00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.960
and of course, continue to follow us on social

00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:03.400
media. Until next time, stay loud and stay lifted.