You Built a Bigger Life. Now You Need a Different Way to Run It.

WEBVTT

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There's a point in life where being the woman

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who can handle everything stops feeling like

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a strength and starts feeling a little bit like

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a trap. You've built the career. You've managed

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the family. You're the person everyone relies

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on. And somehow, instead of life getting easier

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as you become more successful, it just keeps

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getting more complicated. My guest today, Cheryl

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Ann Skwinecki, calls this the peak of complexity.

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That season when your ambition is still there,

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but your available time, energy, and headspace

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have basically disappeared. And this conversation

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gets into why that happens, why we hold on to

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so much, the guilt, judgment, FOMO, and control

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that make letting go really hard, and what we

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can actually start doing differently. We talk

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about everything from boundaries and delegation

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to the mental load at home, why I'll just do

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it myself. is usually a terrible long -term strategy.

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And one question I absolutely love, am I uniquely

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qualified to do this? Let's get into it. Welcome

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to Loud and Lifted, Cheryl Anne. Thank you so

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much for being here. Thanks for having me. So

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this is fun because I actually had the opportunity

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to be on your podcast not that long ago, which

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was awesome. So I'm glad that we're flipping

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the mic or flipping the seats here and putting

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you in the hot seat and getting to talk about

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what you do. Because I love when I meet amazing

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women and I find out that they're doing things

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to support women. And you have been redefining

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what it means for women to have it all when we're

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in leadership. So first, I mean, that's a big

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task, right? How did you even get into this?

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Gosh, what a good question. I think for me, the

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mission of redefining what it means to have it

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all is really being a part of Gen X. I think

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Gen X was flat out spoon fed this message that

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we would have it all. We were the ones destined

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to finally have it all. No one told us how we

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were supposed to manage it once we had it. And

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I think that's where the real problems came in.

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So I do think it's a bit of generational perspective.

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I'm not sure younger women today even aspire

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to having it all. I think that they have a more

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clear delineation of, you know, I want what I

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want. And I think that's probably healthier,

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like as as a starting point. But for our generation,

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and you know, again, I'm squarely in X, we were

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told we could have it and it really wasn't going

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to work. I am also an ex and I 100 % agree with

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that. It's like go to school, get the job, get

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married, have the kids, keep climbing the corporate

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ladder, keep raising your children and like it'll

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all be fine. That's exactly what you wanted.

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Right. It works to a certain point and then it

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stops working. So we'll get into all of that

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today about what is that inflection point. I,

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my path to doing that work was that I was on

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that trajectory. I came out of Cornell undergrad.

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I went straight to work for Procter & Gamble.

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I spent 15 years climbing the corporate ladder

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there, very dutifully just advancing, you know,

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survive in advance, right? That's kind of the

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whole MO in a company like that. And it was working

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really well. And I thought I would stay there

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forever. And I thought I would reach, you know,

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whatever my version of the C -suite was, whether

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it was the literal version or in a company like

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that, there's kind have lots of mini C suites

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around the company. And I thought that was the

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path. And I got off that ladder 15 years in,

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and I've now spent 16 plus years doing this work.

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So I kind of have a foot in each of the two worlds.

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But my move out was really driven by it no longer

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felt like the equation squared. The roles that

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I was looking at ahead of me on the ladder, what

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I was going to get in return and what I was going

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to have to give to make it work just didn't feel

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like that equation was squaring. And the biggest

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thing that wasn't was I just didn't care enough

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about what brand of laundry detergent people

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ultimately used. It just didn't feel like the

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biggest problem I wanted to solve. And so I thought,

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well, if I'm going to work this hard, I really

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want to solve a problem that I think makes a

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meaningful dent in people's lives. And I've always

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been passionate. I don't really know why, but

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I've always been passionate about women and their

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condition. And it felt like a place where I could

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make a dent. So was there, I mean, you said,

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because you decided you didn't care about what

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kind of laundry detergent people are using, which

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is hilarious. But was there something that happened?

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Or was it just sort of like the accumulation

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of events and like where you were at that? You

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were like, this is death by a thousand cuts,

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right? Just, yeah, I don't think there was, there

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was no grand moment where I slammed my laptop

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closed and said, that's it. In fact, I got this

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itch, like the year that I left was 2009. And

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I actually tried to resign in the summer and

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I got talked into staying through the end of

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the year to finish some things that I was working

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on. And I really, during that time thought I

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was going to leave an open and artisan bakery.

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Like that was the first, I know it has nothing

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to do with what I do. But here's why that makes

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sense. My life had become so big and so global

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and so 24 -7, right? I was running these big

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brands, global teams, like it just was a nonstop

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thing. And I think I was seeking, we're always

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seeking balance, right? It just, as humans, that's

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our, we want what we don't have. So I had this

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like idea for a full retraction and to just a

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passion -based business. And I live in kind of

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a small town, a suburb of Cincinnati. And we

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have this really cute little downtown area. And

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I just could picture it like the big glass storefront

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and this like barefoot Contessa style. bakery

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and maybe some great chicken salad. Like I just

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had the, I literally had a menu, I had pricing,

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I had business plan. I looked at real estate.

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Thank God it all fell through, right? I would

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have been, I would have been satisfied with that

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for about 10 minutes and then I would have gotten

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bored. What my Godfather lovingly refers to as

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my muffin store. Like this was, you know, what

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were you really going to do? But I needed the

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retraction. I think that was what was very clear

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to me was I needed something I could wrap my

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hands around, like serve people. Right. And somehow

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when the real estate transaction did not work

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out, I started thinking a little bit more broadly

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about food and my first business that I launched

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was in the food space. And then it had a coaching

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component to it. Okay. And I promise this all

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lines up and makes sense of how we got where

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we are today. But I went from like, okay, Artisan

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Bakery, it's not that. Really, it's in the food

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space. I love food. I'm going to teach people

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how to eat well and have food that tastes great

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but is healthy. And then there was a coaching

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component of that of, well, I can't just do it

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for them. I'm going to teach them how to do it.

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And when people start talking about their relationship

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with Food Betsy, they start talking about their

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lives. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, the

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food is the thing they're using to manage this

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unwieldy life. And we're never going to get this

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relationship with food right until we get the

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life right, right? And so they started asking

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other questions and I was like, well, those are

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much more interesting questions. And so that

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started extending the realm of what coaching

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was talking about. And eventually I just shut

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down the food business and thought, okay, that's

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what I'm going to do. I'm going to meet women

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at what's not working in your life. And person

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by person, it started like this pattern started

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emerging of there really are themes of what's

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not working. And if we can build a set of practices

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to address those themes, you get a lot closer

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to having it all, right? You get a lot closer

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to at least being able to manage the parts of

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it that you want. That's so funny how it doesn't

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make sense when you start, but then you're really

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seeing how it all ends up being connected. And

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sometimes you end up a different way than you

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thought. That's life. That's amazing. So through

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the years that you've been doing this, what are

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those themes that you continue to see over and

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over again? Yeah. So I think the first thing

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is related to the life cycle of a woman. If you

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think about a professionally ambitious woman

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who comes out of college, I map this onto what

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I've started to call the complexity curve. And

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it's shaped like a bell curve. And so at the

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beginning of it, you have low complexity, really

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high ambition, really low complexity. The world

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is your oyster. You have a lot of time and energy

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that you can devote to anything that you want.

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I have a daughter in this stage of life. I'm

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wildly jealous of her. Looks amazing, right?

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Like you can do, she can go to Pilates. She can

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run marathons. She can learn pottery, like whatever

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she wants to do. And I think of that as the launch,

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right? And then ambitious women quickly start,

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that curve becomes vertical. And that's the climb.

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And this is the yes and chapter of life where

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everything is additive, right? Yes, I will have

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a husband. I will add a house. I would like a

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child. Yes, another child, bigger job. Like,

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yes, yes, yes, all the things. And the operating

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system that we used in the launch actually works

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during the climb. Like, you can continue to just

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sort of run your life the same way. It's just

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bigger. But there's a certain point where you

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cross this imaginary line and it just stops working.

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And we all know when we hit that line. I could

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ask you and I'm sure you're like, yep. It was

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right about here. This is when things started

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to just be like, this is not working anymore,

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right? I don't have any time for myself. Key

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relationships start to suffer. Our health often

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takes a hit. You know, we, our confidence takes

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a hit because it's like, I do not have enough

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of me to go around. And that phase is not short.

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This peak complexity is kind of a long stage

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of life. I think it starts about the time that

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your family is complete. You're like, that's

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about when I'm maxed out at like, it's not going

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to get too much worse. But then sometimes you

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add bigger jobs, so it gets like a little bit

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worse. And you don't come out of it until I think

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your oldest gets their driver's license. That's

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when it starts to turn. Okay. So my kids are

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a little older than you. Do you have one who's

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my, how old are you? I'm 18 and 15. Okay. So

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you've been through this. So don't you think

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like once that first one gets the driver's license,

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you're like, bing, there's the first little turn.

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Maybe it's a hair easier. And then Eventually,

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of course, you know, the nest empties and we

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get a lot of time back. And I think that is the

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phase I've started thinking of as the relaunch,

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like done well. This is a relaunch done poorly.

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It's a midlife crisis. You just don't know who

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you are after you've carried all this and you've

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been so consumed with it and it starts to get

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smaller, like who am I questions start to emerge.

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And then eventually you get to what I call the

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return, which is where we picture, you know,

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maybe sitting on the front porch, reminiscing

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about our life, reflecting on like the wisdom

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that we've acquired, trying to pay forward some

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of that wisdom. So I alighted at this idea that

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like women in the peak were the ones who needed

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help. climb don't know they need help yet. True.

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And they would not accept it even if they did.

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Right? This is the thing. I banged my head against

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that wall for a while. But it's like, they're

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like, I've got this. I don't know what your problem

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is, right? Women in the peak are like, uh -oh,

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something happened and I don't know what happened.

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And what happened is the capacity curve is the

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inverse of this complexity curve. So their discretionary

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capacity went negative. Does that make sense

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to you? Like there is no more available capacity.

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It's all gone. It's all gone. So the only thing

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that works is changing your operating system.

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So that insight, like the setup for that is the

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core thing that I think I've been trying to find

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language for for like a long time. And what happens

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is when you're in the peak, you need a different

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set of I'm going to call it like an operating

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system, different set of practices that you run

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your life by. And the biggest thing is really

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about what you will say yes to and what you will

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say no to is no longer yes and yes and. You have

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to start making some choices about what matters

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the most or what matters right now or what am

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I going to get to this week or how often am I

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going to get to that thing? Like you don't really

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have to give anything up entirely per se, but

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you do have to grapple with cadence and frequency,

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intensity, you know. No, it's so true. I've never

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thought about it from that perspective, but you're

00:12:00.419 --> 00:12:02.259
so right. During that climb, no one's helping

00:12:02.259 --> 00:12:05.299
you. You're just in this fight or flight mode,

00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:07.139
I guess, and you just keep fighting. Yeah, it's

00:12:07.139 --> 00:12:08.559
fine. Everything's going to work out. You think

00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:10.220
you're going to get to a certain point. Your

00:12:10.220 --> 00:12:11.940
kids are going to get a certain age. Your job's

00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:13.500
going to get to a certain point that you're high

00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:15.720
enough that everything's going to become easier.

00:12:15.940 --> 00:12:18.559
I think then you get there and you're like… Didn't

00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.659
happen. Right. The mythical Sunday. Right. The

00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:23.720
mythical Sunday becomes reality and you're like,

00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:25.500
Oh my God, I'm still operating like this. And

00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:28.139
like, I can't, I can't survive, right? Like it's

00:12:28.139 --> 00:12:31.120
not sustainable. So when we hit that, what do

00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.279
we, what do we do? How do you move? I mean, cause

00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.779
there's no magic wand. There's no like one quick

00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:38.059
conversation or one podcast episode, right? That's

00:12:38.059 --> 00:12:39.480
going to help that. But what's, what are those

00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.480
steps that we take? We're in that peak and we're,

00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:42.519
someone's listening to us and they're like, Oh

00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:44.620
my gosh, this is me. I've hit this peak. Now

00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:49.320
what? So again, I break this down into a collection

00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:53.279
of practices that we have to adopt that are different

00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.879
than what the default was in the client. So we

00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:57.120
won't get to all of them today, but let's talk

00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.259
about one or two, right? One of them is like

00:12:59.259 --> 00:13:01.659
you have to start treating your week like it's

00:13:01.659 --> 00:13:05.879
your life in miniature. We get really hung up

00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:07.940
on like annual plans and five -year plans and

00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:09.860
10 -year plans But I think what we always have

00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:12.639
in front of us is the week So so goes your week.

00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.700
So goes your life, right? You're just gonna string

00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:16.320
together a bunch of weeks I think it's kind of

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.600
the perfectly designed unit of time to think

00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.320
about we don't get as overwhelmed if we just

00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:23.539
have to do the next seven days so thinking about

00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:27.210
the elements that you really want to protect

00:13:27.210 --> 00:13:29.990
for and put in first. It's almost like an upside

00:13:29.990 --> 00:13:33.429
down. Most of us were trained like if you think

00:13:33.429 --> 00:13:38.330
about how we're trained as kids, our parents

00:13:38.330 --> 00:13:42.470
tell us like you can go play when your homework's

00:13:42.470 --> 00:13:45.110
done or you can go play when your room is cleaned

00:13:45.110 --> 00:13:47.610
up. right? Or you can have free time when you've

00:13:47.610 --> 00:13:49.389
done your chores. There's this sense of like,

00:13:49.529 --> 00:13:52.470
you work first, and then whatever is leftover,

00:13:52.649 --> 00:13:55.389
then that's yours until you get to the part of

00:13:55.389 --> 00:13:57.509
your life where there's nothing left over, right?

00:13:57.730 --> 00:13:59.769
So all of a sudden we're like, wait, I was taught

00:13:59.769 --> 00:14:03.350
this system where I only get to have things for

00:14:03.350 --> 00:14:05.610
me when everything else is done and it's never

00:14:05.610 --> 00:14:11.389
done. Right. So The idea of saying like, how

00:14:11.389 --> 00:14:13.210
are you gonna construct like an upside down or

00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:14.870
an inverted week is to say those things are gonna

00:14:14.870 --> 00:14:17.669
have to go in first. You're gonna have to put

00:14:17.669 --> 00:14:21.730
those non -negotiable activities that keep you

00:14:21.730 --> 00:14:24.830
feeling healthy and whole and human into your

00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:27.269
week first at a cadence that you actually can

00:14:27.269 --> 00:14:29.940
sustain. And that will have to be the forcing

00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:32.860
function to keep work in its natural place. If

00:14:32.860 --> 00:14:35.200
you do not make that inversion, you will be tired

00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:36.740
for the rest of your life, or at least until

00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:39.519
you exit the peak, right? Because work is an

00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.399
insatiable beast. It will always take as much

00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.519
of it, as much of us as we are willing to give

00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:45.720
it. Kids are insatiable little beasts, too. They'll

00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.059
take as much as we'll give them. Husbands are.

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:50.139
Yeah. They'll just take and take and take and

00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:51.620
take. And then, you know, of course, we're all

00:14:51.620 --> 00:14:53.399
good humans who want to be like involved in our

00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.960
communities and volunteer and be on boards and

00:14:55.960 --> 00:15:00.460
those things all take They take the four reserves

00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:03.559
that we have to play with. They take time and

00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:06.460
energy and headspace and emotional bandwidth.

00:15:07.379 --> 00:15:09.299
That's what we've got. We make our life out of

00:15:09.299 --> 00:15:12.159
those four resources. Maybe money, I'm arguing

00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.059
like maybe money is a fifth reserve because you

00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:16.870
can throw money at some problems. We're really

00:15:16.870 --> 00:15:18.769
looking at those resources and saying, do I have

00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:21.210
enough of them to go around? And so when you're

00:15:21.210 --> 00:15:23.909
designing a week that really works for you, you

00:15:23.909 --> 00:15:26.309
have to be able to make sure that these most

00:15:26.309 --> 00:15:28.789
important things to you that keep you really

00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:31.269
solid, like foundationally, go in first. And

00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:33.470
I think that's a shift that does not get made

00:15:33.470 --> 00:15:35.909
until you're in the peak. That makes sense. And

00:15:35.909 --> 00:15:38.370
I think, too, it's so easy to get so focused

00:15:38.370 --> 00:15:41.230
on work and life that you forget the self piece

00:15:41.230 --> 00:15:44.029
of that, right? So to your point, if I'm giving

00:15:44.029 --> 00:15:47.539
100, well, not even 100%. more than 50 % to work

00:15:47.539 --> 00:15:49.720
and then life, but then it's like, oh wait, what

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:51.639
about me over here? Like I've totally maxed out

00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:53.220
my week and now there's no time for the self

00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:55.179
piece, which I always say is important. If you

00:15:55.179 --> 00:15:58.419
reframe the word life to be others, it gets very

00:15:58.419 --> 00:16:00.500
clean, right? Because we're all taught about

00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:02.460
like work -life balance, but if you think about

00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:05.620
work and other people's needs or priorities,

00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:08.240
then that's where self becomes a very obvious

00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:09.980
like outlier. So it's like the people at work

00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:12.659
who need things, the people outside of work who

00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:15.330
need things. And now there's like, okay, what

00:16:15.330 --> 00:16:20.330
do I need? Right. To just, I get one life. What

00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:21.850
do I want out of it? You know, everybody loves

00:16:21.850 --> 00:16:24.409
that Mary Oliver quote about your one wild and

00:16:24.409 --> 00:16:26.710
precious life because it's so deeply resonant

00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:29.269
that, yeah, we only get one. And am I really

00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:32.590
going to give all of it to laundry detergent?

00:16:34.009 --> 00:16:36.409
Or whatever your laundry detergent is, right?

00:16:37.169 --> 00:16:40.090
It just becomes so clear of like, oh, that is

00:16:40.090 --> 00:16:43.379
not going to work. Right. And then you become

00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:45.720
the default person for everyone and everything,

00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.320
right? So then how, so if we find ourselves,

00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.879
many people I'm sure who hear this, find themselves

00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:54.230
in that, what do we? We've identified the problem.

00:16:54.370 --> 00:16:56.230
Great. That's probably number one. But what do

00:16:56.230 --> 00:17:00.090
we do? How do we start to peel that back? Because

00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:02.009
I think what happens is because we become that

00:17:02.009 --> 00:17:04.529
default person, whether it's at work or in life

00:17:04.529 --> 00:17:07.589
or others, it's hard to start pulling back or

00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:09.730
having boundaries when everyone's like, what

00:17:09.730 --> 00:17:12.970
do you mean? She always does this. Of course

00:17:12.970 --> 00:17:15.230
she's going to finish this project. Why do you

00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:17.670
think it's hard? Dance with me. I agree that

00:17:17.670 --> 00:17:19.589
it's hard. I agree. I'm not challenging it. But

00:17:19.589 --> 00:17:23.759
for you, why is it hard? people pleasing and

00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.259
guilt play into that, right? Like where you don't

00:17:26.259 --> 00:17:28.759
want to let somebody down. And again, professionally

00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:30.539
or personally, I've been in that situation on

00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:31.799
both ends where it's like, well, you don't want

00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.519
to let someone down or you raise your hand to

00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:35.160
pick up one more thing. Like, I'll make the cookies

00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.839
for the bake sale because nobody else can do

00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:38.880
it. Or you think somebody else can't do it, right?

00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.660
So it's that whole, maybe you don't have the

00:17:41.660 --> 00:17:46.599
delegation or the support or the guts, the courage

00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.819
to be like, no. And that's, I think, probably

00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:53.390
the biggest struggle. What I hear you naming

00:17:53.390 --> 00:17:56.170
is a bunch of emotions, right? There's there

00:17:56.170 --> 00:17:59.450
are there is emotional friction that comes up

00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:01.789
when we think about doing this differently often

00:18:01.789 --> 00:18:03.750
letting go of something like what who is gonna

00:18:03.750 --> 00:18:06.789
do it if it's not me So I heard you name several.

00:18:06.890 --> 00:18:09.250
I always say there's like a big four, right?

00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:12.170
So let's pressure test these so guilt is one

00:18:12.170 --> 00:18:16.880
FOMO Oh, yeah. I want to be the one who got to

00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:18.859
go on the field trip. And I don't want to miss

00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:22.819
that experience. Judgment, what will other people

00:18:22.819 --> 00:18:25.720
think of me not doing this thing anymore? Are

00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.500
they going to think I'm not good enough? I'm

00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:30.140
not committed enough? I'm not a good mom? What

00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:33.579
is the kind of external judgment that's going

00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:36.180
to come my way? And then loss of control, which

00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:37.940
you described, right? So when people say I'm

00:18:37.940 --> 00:18:39.839
not going to delegating, what they mean is I

00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.289
like control. And so, and I do too, this is my

00:18:43.289 --> 00:18:46.910
hardest one. And so if we look at why are we

00:18:46.910 --> 00:18:50.410
holding on to so much, it's almost always one

00:18:50.410 --> 00:18:52.869
of those emotions. Sure. Right? Totally agree

00:18:52.869 --> 00:18:55.549
with that one. Learning to dance with those emotions

00:18:55.549 --> 00:18:57.809
is a huge part of what I end up doing in coaching.

00:18:57.990 --> 00:18:59.930
What are we gonna do about all of these feelings

00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:01.990
that follow us around everywhere? Because we

00:19:01.990 --> 00:19:04.730
treat them like they're a roadblock. We're like,

00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:06.250
okay, I'm going down the street, I gotta do this

00:19:06.250 --> 00:19:08.269
thing. Shit, there's this road, I can't do it.

00:19:08.269 --> 00:19:11.799
It's like a stop sign, right? But I use this

00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:13.619
metaphor of, can you turn it into a speed bump?

00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:16.599
There will always be some friction to making

00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:18.819
the decision. But until you actually practice

00:19:18.819 --> 00:19:21.220
making it, try it, run an experiment, see what

00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:23.960
happens, you won't learn that it's survivable.

00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:26.680
That's very true. So you're right. When we build

00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:28.799
these lives where we are mission critical, it

00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.900
actually feels really good to be the one who's

00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:35.019
so needed, who's central to everything. I'm so

00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:37.500
important in the life of my family, in the life

00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:41.150
of my company. What would they do without me?

00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:44.630
That's like security to our identity. Sure. And

00:19:44.630 --> 00:19:46.930
so we really start to dance with those questions

00:19:46.930 --> 00:19:49.470
because go back to those early stages of the

00:19:49.470 --> 00:19:52.230
launch and the climb. Think about how much identity

00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:54.869
is wrapped up in being the one who can do it.

00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:57.740
Right. Oh yeah and proving to people that you

00:19:57.740 --> 00:19:59.740
can do it and I think about that especially probably

00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:01.319
more when my kids were younger and I was still

00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.279
in the climb piece of that but it's like you

00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:04.859
wanted to prove that well I can be a working

00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:07.319
mom I can bust my ass at work I'll stay late

00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.440
I'll go to the happy hour I'll do all those events

00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:11.839
outside of normal hours while my kids are at

00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:13.700
home with my husband you know after they've been

00:20:13.700 --> 00:20:16.559
in daycare all day so you try to do all that

00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.920
and then on the flip side of that I would volunteer

00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:20.779
for all the PTA stuff because I was like well

00:20:20.779 --> 00:20:22.359
I'm not going to be that working mom who doesn't

00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:24.319
show up to anything so here I am with all these

00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:27.519
stay at home Hello moms. And here I am like panicking

00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:29.400
because I'm missing an important meeting, right?

00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:31.880
So it was like this whole, I guess judgment,

00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:33.599
you're right. I'm thinking proving myself, but

00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.200
it was the judgment of like, no, I got this.

00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:37.039
I can do all of these things. There are two sides

00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:39.259
of the same coin. So when you say I'm proving

00:20:39.259 --> 00:20:42.680
myself why, so that I'm not judged for not being

00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.799
enough in either of these two worlds, right?

00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.400
I want to be as good as the most devoted moms

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.420
and I want to be as good as the most devoted

00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:53.160
employees. Yep. And there's no kind of middle

00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.170
ground that's carved out in that. So, you know,

00:20:56.769 --> 00:20:58.529
you're asking good questions like, well, what

00:20:58.529 --> 00:21:01.930
do people do? It's not a quick fix. I don't sell

00:21:01.930 --> 00:21:04.849
quick fixes, right? Darn, that would be so amazing.

00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:09.170
You'd be a billionaire. I think that there is

00:21:09.170 --> 00:21:14.230
a reckoning with the expectations that we have

00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:18.579
accepted. Expectations got set by someone, by

00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:21.220
our parents, by our educators, by society at

00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:24.099
large, by our early work experiences, by our

00:21:24.099 --> 00:21:26.079
families. We're like, we have this collection

00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.400
of expectations, we've set some for ourselves,

00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:31.759
and we're crushed under the weight of those expectations.

00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:34.519
So it's a reckoning with those expectations to

00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.400
say, how am I going to really question these

00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.740
invisible rules that are governing my choices

00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:44.259
and rewrite them in a way that's really right

00:21:44.259 --> 00:21:47.089
for me, that I can lay my head on that pillow

00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:49.410
every night and go like, yeah, I feel deeply

00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:52.670
fulfilled. I feel a sense of peace with like

00:21:52.670 --> 00:21:55.650
the choices I've made. That's not quick work.

00:21:55.910 --> 00:21:58.890
Right. It's like it's a process that involves

00:21:58.890 --> 00:22:02.210
really collaborative thinking to rewrite those

00:22:02.210 --> 00:22:04.089
in a way that you have a lot of freedom on the

00:22:04.089 --> 00:22:07.950
other side. Well, that's so true. And it goes

00:22:07.950 --> 00:22:09.869
back to what you said earlier, where it's deciding

00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:11.869
in the week, like you don't have to make a five

00:22:11.869 --> 00:22:14.240
year plan. It's starting with let's start with

00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.319
next week, right? This is next week and what's

00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:18.980
important and what are the priorities and kind

00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:22.440
of backing into it from there or backing in building.

00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:24.039
I don't know, backing in and building, right?

00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:25.299
Like you're starting there from the week and

00:22:25.299 --> 00:22:27.259
it's building into that of where you're spending,

00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:28.980
where you're making time, where you're not going

00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:31.640
to spend time. What can you delegate? What can

00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:34.079
go away? And again, it goes back to, I think

00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.200
I always joke that I was always pretty good professionally

00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:39.960
delegating, but I was not good delegating personally.

00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:41.920
And it goes back to the control piece of like,

00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.599
well, I have to I care more. I can do it all

00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.519
and I'm going to have everything perfect in its

00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:50.299
place. I've mentioned this before in other podcasts,

00:22:50.420 --> 00:22:52.140
like when I was traveling a lot, I would have

00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:53.859
everything figured out for the whole freaking

00:22:53.859 --> 00:22:56.079
week for my family. My husband's like, why are

00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.140
you doing this? We can survive. It might have

00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:59.559
been on McDonald's, but who gives a shit, right?

00:23:00.019 --> 00:23:02.680
It was sort of. Again, if you break down why,

00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:04.680
and I don't know why it was for you, but clients,

00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.700
I've had people who are like, because I will

00:23:07.700 --> 00:23:09.700
not compromise the standard at which I would

00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:11.900
do it. And I know he wouldn't do it that way.

00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.059
So we are going to have my standard upheld even

00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:16.700
in my absence, right? I haven't found anyone

00:23:16.700 --> 00:23:19.240
yet at home who will uphold my standard. So I'm

00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:21.660
going to overmanage it. And that was just really

00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:23.859
like a trust issue, right? Like I don't trust

00:23:23.859 --> 00:23:25.779
that anyone will do this my way if I'm not there.

00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:28.920
And some people, it's like, my identity is so

00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:30.700
wrapped up in being the person who does that

00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:32.619
that I cannot lay that down because I feel like

00:23:32.619 --> 00:23:35.920
a failure. Yeah. Like the guilt that I feel over

00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.079
not being the one who chose the lunch they're

00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.180
having on Wednesday. even though I'm going to

00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:43.619
be in Idaho. It's like, I just can't lay that

00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:46.240
down. And so we get this really grippy energy

00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.940
around it. That's so true. Yeah, it's just so

00:23:48.940 --> 00:23:52.240
true. That's so true. How do boundaries play

00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.279
into all this? How do you manage, deal, set,

00:23:55.460 --> 00:23:57.140
have conversations with women around boundaries?

00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:59.940
I mean, they're central. I think that a lot of

00:23:59.940 --> 00:24:02.619
people misdefine the word boundary or what a

00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:06.599
boundary is. Here's my definition. I can't remember

00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.650
who taught me this. somebody who was probably

00:24:08.650 --> 00:24:10.309
a guest on my podcast, I heard this from and

00:24:10.309 --> 00:24:12.869
I'm like, this is it. It's a boundary has to

00:24:12.869 --> 00:24:15.289
be something that requires no one else's participation.

00:24:16.369 --> 00:24:19.130
So for you to hold a boundary, you have to be

00:24:19.130 --> 00:24:21.910
able to execute that boundary with no one else's

00:24:21.910 --> 00:24:25.170
participation. So for example, let's use an example

00:24:25.170 --> 00:24:27.849
of like your child is speaking to you disrespectfully

00:24:27.849 --> 00:24:30.190
and you're like, you can't talk to me like that.

00:24:30.210 --> 00:24:32.230
I'm going to hold that boundary or your husband

00:24:32.230 --> 00:24:33.710
or your mother -in -law, somebody is talking

00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:37.039
to you, right? That is not a boundary. The boundary

00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.200
is saying, I will not stay in this room while

00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.880
you are speaking to me this way. And then exiting

00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.480
the room. That's a boundary. Because I am fully

00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.960
in control. Will I or will I not stay in the

00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.019
room? Will I or will I not stay in the conversation?

00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:55.839
So boundaries have to be behaviors that we can

00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.079
execute without anyone else's participation,

00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:01.279
buy -in, agreement. I get to hold the boundary.

00:25:01.829 --> 00:25:03.609
Isn't that kind of a radical idea? I like that

00:25:03.609 --> 00:25:06.809
a lot. I mean, it just changes everything. That's

00:25:06.809 --> 00:25:08.990
great. So when you ask how do boundaries hold

00:25:08.990 --> 00:25:12.009
in, okay, let's say I will not take meetings

00:25:12.009 --> 00:25:14.269
after five o 'clock. Just make that one. That's

00:25:14.269 --> 00:25:15.829
what a lot of people would love to hold, right?

00:25:16.289 --> 00:25:18.210
What that means is if you schedule a meeting

00:25:18.210 --> 00:25:21.240
with me after five, I will not be there. Now,

00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:22.980
there might be a consequence to my behavior.

00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:25.599
I might get fired. I might not be top rated.

00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:28.059
You might be frustrated with me. You might talk

00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:29.599
about me to somebody else like, I can't believe

00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:31.000
she won't go to this meeting after five. It was

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.220
such an important time for the company. But if

00:25:33.220 --> 00:25:35.660
you're going to hold that boundary of I don't

00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:37.579
do meetings after five, no one else can hold

00:25:37.579 --> 00:25:40.480
it for you. They can schedule. They can do whatever

00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.619
they want to schedule. Your boundary is I will

00:25:43.619 --> 00:25:47.319
not attend. That makes total sense. I love that.

00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:50.539
But really hard to execute. What we want is we

00:25:50.539 --> 00:25:52.819
want everybody else to uphold our boundary for

00:25:52.819 --> 00:25:54.859
us so it's so easy and there's no emotional friction.

00:25:55.460 --> 00:25:57.519
So when we say, I won't do meetings after five,

00:25:57.559 --> 00:25:59.339
what we mean is I want no one to schedule meetings

00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:01.539
after five so that it's very easy for me to hold

00:26:01.539 --> 00:26:04.000
this principle I've set. But that's not how the

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.160
world works. Right. So boundaries are all over

00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:10.160
my work. We talk about them every day because

00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:13.079
so much of it is finding that internal fortitude

00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:14.940
to say, I'm going to have some conflict because

00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:17.180
of my boundaries. How am I going to manage that

00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:20.099
conflict? How am I going to manage it? So boundaries,

00:26:20.900 --> 00:26:24.880
delegation, support. When you're going through

00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.119
this with women, does anyone ever feel like they're

00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:28.519
like, well, I don't want to lower my standards.

00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:30.380
I don't want to delegate. I don't want to have

00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:32.980
that because I feel like I'm not. So how do we

00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:35.150
get over that? Because it's not. lowering your

00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:37.509
standards. How do you get through that? So you

00:26:37.509 --> 00:26:39.230
mean they don't want to lower the standard on

00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:40.890
the output, right? Like they're like, no, I want

00:26:40.890 --> 00:26:43.289
the output to stay as good as if I had done it

00:26:43.289 --> 00:26:46.450
myself. Yeah. So it's such a simple answer. You

00:26:46.450 --> 00:26:48.549
might roll your eyes at it. It's just hiring

00:26:48.549 --> 00:26:51.089
really well. Yeah. Whether that's at work or

00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:53.430
at home. So housekeepers, classic example, right?

00:26:53.450 --> 00:26:55.549
People are like, I mean, trust me, when I tell

00:26:55.549 --> 00:26:57.609
you I am like a neat freak, I mean, I want my

00:26:57.609 --> 00:26:59.309
house to look like a magazine shoot could happen

00:26:59.309 --> 00:27:02.289
at any moment. And like, that's what I want.

00:27:02.990 --> 00:27:06.730
So We had a housekeeping team, this husband and

00:27:06.730 --> 00:27:09.109
wife who were so wonderful for a number of years.

00:27:09.230 --> 00:27:13.190
And I think to have a great housekeeper, you

00:27:13.190 --> 00:27:16.309
have to be willing to say, this is the standard,

00:27:17.089 --> 00:27:19.170
right? This is my standard. And if they can't

00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:21.430
meet that standard, then they can't stay in that

00:27:21.430 --> 00:27:24.049
job. And I think what happens to a lot of us

00:27:24.049 --> 00:27:26.049
is we're like, well, no one's ever going to meet

00:27:26.049 --> 00:27:27.950
my standard. That's our default assumption. So

00:27:27.950 --> 00:27:30.150
we're like, is it good enough? Am I willing to

00:27:30.150 --> 00:27:32.190
clean up after the housekeeper? Am I willing

00:27:32.190 --> 00:27:34.470
to redo? Like, you should not have to do that.

00:27:34.490 --> 00:27:36.470
Yeah. Let's just talk about getting results through

00:27:36.470 --> 00:27:38.450
others, like come up a level to getting results

00:27:38.450 --> 00:27:41.170
through others. You might delegate to somebody

00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:42.970
who you don't pay anything to. That could be

00:27:42.970 --> 00:27:46.589
your kid, your spouse, your mom, or you might

00:27:46.589 --> 00:27:48.670
outsource, like, I'm going to pay someone to

00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:51.950
do this task. So delegation, where you're kind

00:27:51.950 --> 00:27:53.769
of getting it for free, it's more about how are

00:27:53.769 --> 00:27:57.109
we sharing work in this ecosystem, right, whether

00:27:57.109 --> 00:27:59.089
that's at work or at home. Because on teams,

00:27:59.130 --> 00:28:01.750
if you already have the team, It's delegation.

00:28:02.009 --> 00:28:04.029
You're not paying incrementally to get that work

00:28:04.029 --> 00:28:05.970
done. You're just assigning it to a different

00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:09.410
human. So much of it is about learning how to

00:28:09.410 --> 00:28:12.109
really paint a picture of what does high quality

00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:14.190
look like. Paint done is Brene Brown's term.

00:28:14.190 --> 00:28:17.809
I love that term. Can you give them a crisp vision

00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:20.450
of what we're steering toward? What success looks

00:28:20.450 --> 00:28:22.630
like? What your standard is? And then they're

00:28:22.630 --> 00:28:24.829
not done until they get there. Right. And can

00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:27.150
you hold the tension of giving the feedback to

00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:31.390
say, it's not good enough yet? Try again. Here's

00:28:31.390 --> 00:28:33.289
where it's at a gap from the standard we talked

00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:35.970
about. You got to do it again. That is so hard

00:28:35.970 --> 00:28:39.190
because of the emotional exchange behind it,

00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:41.950
whether it's, again, a spouse, a mother, a kid,

00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:45.089
somebody who works for you, but that's the answer

00:28:45.089 --> 00:28:46.569
to not lowering the standard. That's the answer.

00:28:46.569 --> 00:28:49.190
Yeah. Right. It's how do you train them? And

00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:50.809
not to just like, fine, I'll do it myself. It's

00:28:50.809 --> 00:28:52.430
just easier, right? I've heard so many people

00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:54.690
say that. I didn't have someone else do this.

00:28:54.750 --> 00:28:56.089
I didn't delegate because it's just easier if

00:28:56.089 --> 00:28:58.769
I do it myself. It's always easier one time.

00:28:59.810 --> 00:29:02.589
If you have a task that is a one -time task,

00:29:02.750 --> 00:29:04.829
it will always be easier to do it yourself because

00:29:04.829 --> 00:29:07.190
it's true that it takes time to give direction

00:29:07.190 --> 00:29:09.849
and course correct and give feedback and whatever.

00:29:09.930 --> 00:29:11.509
But if it is a task that is going to be done

00:29:11.509 --> 00:29:14.170
more than once, those dividends get paid over

00:29:14.170 --> 00:29:16.509
time. And so I think that's always my line in

00:29:16.509 --> 00:29:18.289
the sand. Like a one -time task, I might be like,

00:29:18.390 --> 00:29:20.369
I'll just do it. I've got a project. It's in

00:29:20.369 --> 00:29:22.190
my head. I kind of know what I want. But if it's

00:29:22.190 --> 00:29:24.470
something that we're going to do regularly, I'm

00:29:24.470 --> 00:29:26.289
going to build a process that you can follow.

00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.380
Yeah. And hold them accountable, right? And I

00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:29.900
think about that especially now. I have teenagers,

00:29:30.099 --> 00:29:32.299
right? Now it's like I'll do things for them

00:29:32.299 --> 00:29:34.259
because I just don't feel like arguing with them.

00:29:34.299 --> 00:29:35.660
I don't feel like them doing it half -assed.

00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.119
And then my husband's like, oh, you're teaching

00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.279
them bad habits, which he's right. They know

00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.079
they'll just do it half -assed and then… Weaponized

00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.700
incompetence. I have a daughter who's masterful

00:29:45.700 --> 00:29:48.180
at this. Weaponized incompetence. I will suck

00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:50.119
at this so much that you'll never ask me again.

00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.460
Yeah. 100%. It's so tragic. But think about…

00:29:54.170 --> 00:29:56.990
What were tall again i do think there's a time

00:29:56.990 --> 00:29:58.829
where you just call it and you're like this is

00:29:58.829 --> 00:30:01.750
not worth the emotional pain of continuing to

00:30:01.750 --> 00:30:03.650
ask this person to do this thing that they're

00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:05.369
clearly not gonna they're not willing to learn

00:30:05.369 --> 00:30:09.170
to do it. If you're in a paid environment that

00:30:09.170 --> 00:30:12.390
is grounds for dismissal. Just think about that.

00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:16.049
Whether they are your lawn guy or your nail tech

00:30:16.049 --> 00:30:18.910
or the person who cut your hair or the person

00:30:18.910 --> 00:30:20.930
who cleaned your house, it's like if you can't

00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:22.930
do this the way I want it done, I'm going to

00:30:22.930 --> 00:30:27.269
find somebody else who can. Yeah, that's fair.

00:30:27.589 --> 00:30:30.490
If you're an employee at work and you can't get

00:30:30.490 --> 00:30:32.529
to the standard, we're going to have to agree

00:30:32.529 --> 00:30:34.950
that you're either unwilling or unable and you're

00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:37.900
probably not in the right job. Okay. So I sound

00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:40.039
like I'm being a hard ass about it, but I think

00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:43.579
it really is true that our tolerance for that

00:30:43.579 --> 00:30:46.140
is what keeps us in the seat of like we're playing

00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:48.799
cleanup for everybody else's inability. Now there's

00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:50.980
one exception, Betsy. You might like this one.

00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:53.359
So my husband and I have very different standards

00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.220
for most things in life. I say that kindly, but

00:30:57.220 --> 00:31:01.259
I have much more exacting. Okay. So we really

00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:05.109
have had to adopt sort of task splitting. And

00:31:05.109 --> 00:31:08.369
the example I've told before on podcast is like

00:31:08.369 --> 00:31:10.430
making the bed, right? It's kind of classic women

00:31:10.430 --> 00:31:12.130
like a lot of pillows and they have to go a certain

00:31:12.130 --> 00:31:14.410
way and whatever. I just, I have been married

00:31:14.410 --> 00:31:17.109
for 26 years. He is never going to do this right.

00:31:17.609 --> 00:31:20.450
He doesn't want to, he doesn't care enough, right?

00:31:20.809 --> 00:31:24.509
So my choices are like, he does nothing and I

00:31:24.509 --> 00:31:28.690
do all of it or he gets it as far as he can or

00:31:28.690 --> 00:31:31.809
that he's willing to and I do the last like 20%.

00:31:31.809 --> 00:31:33.980
Okay. And that's where we've landed. bedmaking

00:31:33.980 --> 00:31:35.960
and lots of other things in our life where it's

00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.440
like, he's going to take a big swing at it and

00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:42.259
it's going to be close, but not quite. And then

00:31:42.259 --> 00:31:45.000
I'm going to have a lot less time invested in

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.400
doing that final zhuzh, right? Okay. I think

00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.000
that's a fair split. I think it works at work.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.940
That makes sense. Creating a presentation, right?

00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:56.940
You probably have really specific things that

00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:59.019
you want, but do you want to start with a blank

00:31:59.019 --> 00:32:01.859
screen or do you want somebody to get it like

00:32:01.859 --> 00:32:04.819
90 % there and then you can put your little final

00:32:04.819 --> 00:32:07.460
tweaks? How do you know I always did that? Because

00:32:07.460 --> 00:32:09.799
now I've got you dialed in. I feel like you know

00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:15.309
me a lot. We are kind of an archetype. Like this

00:32:15.309 --> 00:32:18.630
highly ambitious, perfectionistic person who

00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:21.869
was really rewarded for getting it just right.

00:32:22.450 --> 00:32:24.589
And then we're like, my identity is so wrapped

00:32:24.589 --> 00:32:26.329
up in getting it just right that I can't let

00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:30.509
go of that. And that's okay as long as you have

00:32:30.509 --> 00:32:33.210
capacity. But when our capacity starts to really

00:32:33.210 --> 00:32:36.849
suffer, there has to be another gear that we

00:32:36.849 --> 00:32:43.059
can go into. Uh, me to a T, definitely. So thank

00:32:43.059 --> 00:32:46.940
you for my own personal coaching. I'm so seen.

00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:50.140
No, I mean, you, you hit on so many things, right?

00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.980
That I think so many high achieving, ambitious

00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:55.319
women can relate to where, yes, we've, we've

00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:56.799
gone through this climb. We're at this peak.

00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:58.859
Our kids are older. Now you're dealing with other

00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:00.359
things that you didn't see coming, like aging

00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:02.660
parents or, you know, whatever. So it's like

00:33:02.660 --> 00:33:05.059
there, it doesn't stop. I think that to your

00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:06.480
earlier point where we think we're going to hit

00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.029
a certain. peak and then it's going to be easier.

00:33:09.450 --> 00:33:11.150
Obviously, there's always going to be the speed

00:33:11.150 --> 00:33:13.470
bumps. I love speed bumps over obstacles that

00:33:13.470 --> 00:33:16.009
we have to move forward to. Someone's listening

00:33:16.009 --> 00:33:18.230
to this and they're thinking, oh my gosh, I am

00:33:18.230 --> 00:33:23.750
seeing this is me too. What do we do tomorrow?

00:33:24.109 --> 00:33:26.670
What's that thing that we can just, again, no

00:33:26.670 --> 00:33:30.170
magic wand, where do we start? Yeah. I think

00:33:30.170 --> 00:33:32.930
really the first thing you can do independently

00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:36.460
is ask yourself, just sort of run like a little

00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:39.339
bit of a time audit. Where is my time and my

00:33:39.339 --> 00:33:42.599
energy and my head space like being fully occupied?

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:45.359
And start asking, this is the question that works

00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.779
for a lot of people, am I uniquely qualified

00:33:47.779 --> 00:33:50.900
to do this thing? Oh, I like that. And the more

00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:52.920
things in your life that you can look at it and

00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.519
go objectively like, I am not uniquely qualified

00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:58.160
to do that, right? Somebody could do it, maybe

00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.640
not quite as well, maybe not quite as fast, but

00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.099
like, I probably don't have to be the one to

00:34:04.099 --> 00:34:07.019
do that or that piece. That's the first place

00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:09.039
to start to go and get a little bit of relief.

00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:11.800
And I think the lower the stakes of the thing,

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.980
like if it's a lower stakes experiment, you're

00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:15.860
more likely to run it. Like it just doesn't matter

00:34:15.860 --> 00:34:18.619
that much, right? So somebody else could do it.

00:34:18.739 --> 00:34:20.639
The world would go on if they didn't do it perfectly,

00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.559
but I'm going to like try to see if I can get

00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.119
the return. Because the whole cycle builds on

00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.940
you starting to see the power of freeing up time

00:34:30.940 --> 00:34:33.739
and energy and headspace and emotional bandwidth

00:34:33.739 --> 00:34:36.940
for things you want more. Right? Because, Betsy,

00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.260
none of this matters if we love our life. Right.

00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:42.039
But what is true for a lot of women when I cross

00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.239
paths with them is they're super frustrated about

00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.639
some part of their life. They're stuck. Like,

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.500
I can't imagine getting to the next level at

00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:51.400
work because where would I find the capacity?

00:34:51.619 --> 00:34:54.219
Sure. I can't make this relationship any better.

00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:56.579
I can't take better care of my health. I don't

00:34:56.579 --> 00:35:00.059
know how I'm going to go get my PhD, whatever

00:35:00.059 --> 00:35:02.340
it is that they want to do, because there's just

00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:06.340
no bandwidth. And so running these experiments

00:35:06.340 --> 00:35:08.280
starts to prove like, oh, maybe there's a little

00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.199
more maneuverability. And then they can call

00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:13.659
me. Then it's like, that's the place where I

00:35:13.659 --> 00:35:16.420
think having somebody who's a thought partner

00:35:16.420 --> 00:35:18.880
that you can really work some of this out with

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:21.960
in a like a learning lab environment that's unique

00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.380
to you is powerful. I run something called the

00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:26.500
coaching circle, which is a very kind of low

00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:28.739
ticket, easy way to learn these peak practices

00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:31.739
one at a time. We tackle one every month in a

00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:34.159
group setting. And that's a great starting point

00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.219
to just kind of start to build some skills that

00:35:36.219 --> 00:35:38.980
you can apply in your life. And then I do more

00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:41.679
intensive engagements with people who really

00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:43.599
are sitting at that peak of complexity. Like

00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.900
they're a leader at work. They probably have

00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:49.309
school age kids at home. They're maxed, but they

00:35:49.309 --> 00:35:51.329
know they're not done. They still have this ambition

00:35:51.329 --> 00:35:54.269
that hasn't been satisfied. I run a circle called

00:35:54.269 --> 00:35:57.989
Bold for those people that is a great experience,

00:35:58.050 --> 00:36:00.239
and then I do some private coaching. That's awesome.

00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:02.239
I love that. And especially that you're focused

00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.780
on this timeframe, right? Like it's very specific

00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:06.920
and, and you're right. I think a lot of times

00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.880
we sit there and think that it's just us or we'll

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:10.780
figure it out or it's going to get better. But

00:36:10.780 --> 00:36:13.059
you know, even talking through that with someone

00:36:13.059 --> 00:36:14.719
and having those conversations and obviously

00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.139
you ask the most perfect questions, but it's,

00:36:17.300 --> 00:36:19.599
it's, it is normal. Yes, a hundred percent, but

00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.559
there's ways to make it better to help support

00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.639
you versus being in your head and just wanting

00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:26.340
to lose your mind all the time. It's not really

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:28.780
the answer. Well, there's a whole kind of like,

00:36:29.990 --> 00:36:32.630
group of experts, I would say out there who are

00:36:32.630 --> 00:36:35.929
very focused on structural change, and I'm glad

00:36:35.929 --> 00:36:38.929
they're doing it. I'm glad there are people focusing

00:36:38.929 --> 00:36:44.070
on structural change. That's not my work. I think

00:36:44.070 --> 00:36:46.869
I am not waiting for a white knight to come and

00:36:46.869 --> 00:36:49.190
change the structure. I think people need help

00:36:49.190 --> 00:36:52.670
right now. So I'm very focused in my practice

00:36:52.670 --> 00:36:56.329
on personal agency. And what can you do if no

00:36:56.329 --> 00:36:59.590
one is coming to save you? That's really where

00:36:59.590 --> 00:37:01.429
I'm going to sit is I just don't think we have

00:37:01.429 --> 00:37:04.070
time to wait for the systems to catch up and

00:37:04.070 --> 00:37:06.710
have universal childcare. It's just probably

00:37:06.710 --> 00:37:09.329
not going to happen. Yeah. And to your point,

00:37:09.630 --> 00:37:11.409
there's the theory and there's the big picture

00:37:11.409 --> 00:37:13.570
and that's awesome. But what can we do now? Circle

00:37:13.570 --> 00:37:15.269
of influence, circle of control. What can we

00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:17.130
control? What's in our control that we can make

00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:19.550
those changes? And hopefully, systematically,

00:37:19.630 --> 00:37:21.550
things will change. Probably not in our lifetime,

00:37:21.670 --> 00:37:24.110
but maybe in our children's, who knows? But it's

00:37:24.110 --> 00:37:26.010
focusing on those things that we can control.

00:37:26.389 --> 00:37:28.670
So this has been amazing. If people want more

00:37:28.670 --> 00:37:31.489
information, where can they find out about you

00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:35.050
and Brilliant Balance and your circles? So Brilliant

00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:37.730
Balance is the website. It's brilliant -Balance

00:37:37.730 --> 00:37:40.030
.com. The sub stack is a great starting point.

00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:42.210
You can subscribe to the sub stack from there

00:37:42.210 --> 00:37:44.909
and kind of get a flavor for things which links

00:37:44.909 --> 00:37:46.730
you to the podcast and kind of all the other

00:37:46.730 --> 00:37:48.250
things that we do for free, which is a great

00:37:48.250 --> 00:37:51.639
way to get. more kind of inside on my work. Perfect.

00:37:51.739 --> 00:37:53.159
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for being

00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:54.980
here. I greatly appreciate it. Thanks for my

00:37:54.980 --> 00:37:57.440
personal coaching session, too. I love this conversation

00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:59.880
because it wasn't about telling women to lower

00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.480
their ambition or just magically find balance.

00:38:02.900 --> 00:38:05.340
It was really about recognizing when the way

00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:07.380
you've been operating no longer works for the

00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:10.119
life you've built and giving yourself permission

00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:13.199
to change it. And if you're listening to this

00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.579
thinking, OK, but what exactly is making this

00:38:15.579 --> 00:38:18.219
season of my life feel so hard? Shareland has

00:38:18.219 --> 00:38:20.639
a free quiz that can help you figure that out.

00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:23.239
It's called What's Making the Season of Your

00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:25.980
Life So Hard? and it helps you identify which

00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:28.260
of the three hidden challenges may be making

00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.900
the season harder to navigate and what could

00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:33.760
actually help. You can find this quiz through

00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:35.960
Brilliant Balance and I'll include the link in

00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:38.219
the show notes and maybe start with Shareland's

00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.579
question from today. Am I uniquely qualified

00:38:40.579 --> 00:38:43.320
to do this? Because being capable of carrying

00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:46.039
something doesn't always mean it needs to be

00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:49.539
yours. Until next time, stay loud, stay lifted

00:38:49.539 --> 00:38:51.039
and don't do it alone.