How to Deal with a Toxic Boss (Micromanager, Narcissist & Bully Guide)

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Welcome to Loud and Lifted. I'm your host, Betsy

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Hamm. Today's episode is for anyone who's ever

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opened their laptop and thought, great, what

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flavor of chaos are we dealing with today? Because

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we're talking about the three boss types that

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can quietly wreck your confidence and, honestly,

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your career. The micromanager, the narcissist,

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and the bully boss. I'm joined by Linda Harvey.

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You might know her as the management guru from

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TikTok. And her mission is simple. She wants

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to help you lead, speak fluent corporate, and

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protect your piece at work without losing your

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edge. We dig into why this is so common, a hint

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most new managers never actually get formal training,

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and what you can actually do when your boss is

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making work feel impossible. From practical train

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your boss moves to documentation strategies to

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knowing when the healthiest option is just a

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clean exit. Let's get into it. Welcome to Loud

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and Lifted. Linda Harvey, thank you so much for

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being here. Thanks for having me. I'm really

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excited about this conversation. Yeah, this is

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going to be fun because we're going to talk about

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some serious stuff and I have to read just your

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bio from TikTok that says, teaching you how to

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lead, speak fluent corporate and protect your

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piece at work all without losing your edge. That's

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such a great bio and such a great intro. And

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I have to mention that's from TikTok because

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that's actually how I found you. A friend of

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mine is having a tough boss situation and she

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was telling me about it. And, you know, 10 minutes

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later after our conversation, she hangs up and

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goes, this, this is the next thing I see on TikTok.

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She's speaking to me. And of course it was your

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video. Um, so then I went down a rabbit hole

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listening and watching a lot of your videos on

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leadership and management. And I was like, oh

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my gosh, this woman is amazing. You have this

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great, very straightforward, no bullshit, but

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like, I feel like. You're speaking to me in every

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video approach. So before we get into the content

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today, tell me, how did you become this huge

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voice on social media about management and leadership?

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Yeah. So here's the thing. If you would have

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asked me if this is where I was going to be even

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18 months ago, I'd have been like, I think maybe

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you have taken something because I am of a generation

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of you work until you retire. Right. And that's

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what I thought I was going to do. I thought I

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was just going to go into the corporate world

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and work and then eventually like get old and

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not work anymore. And I was in this space. in

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my career where I felt so confident. I felt so

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competent. I knew what I was doing. I like understood

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the work. I understood the assignment. I was

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crushing it. I mean, I was saving my company

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money. I was keeping attrition though. Like I

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was doing all of these things that really aligned

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with all of my skills and I was so excited and

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I hated my job. I hated my job and which was

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such a foreign concept to me because usually

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you don't like your job when it doesn't align

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with what you know or you feel out of your depth

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or it's below you or it's your board. I was challenged.

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I had all of these things and every day I was

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physically ill before I would go to work and

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I worked from home. So that was fun. And I started

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really kind of doing some assessments and realized

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that I was in an environment that felt very toxic

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to me. I had a leader that I felt was very underskilled

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for my performance level, right? Like where I

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was at and someone who just really wanted someone,

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my leader at the time, wanted somebody to come

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in and do everything their way. They wanted me

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to come in and I mean, I remember like I'm a

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head of a department, right? Like I'm a head

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of a department. I've been doing this for 10

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years. Uh, I had saved the company over $600

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,000 in my first six months. Like I had taken

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attrition from like 10 % to 1%. I mean, like

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no, I'm not, I'm not talking like I was just

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like magnetic in a room. I was good at what I

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was doing and I had this boss who was like, well,

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your staff meetings are too long. You need to

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have two 30 -minute staff meetings. And if you're

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not presenting a slide deck in your staff meetings,

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your staff meetings are not effective. And I'm

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like, you don't even come to my staff meetings.

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Why do I need to make this change? Well, that's

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how I do it. Oh, that's what I think is, that's

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what I think is the most effective, right? And

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here's the thing. I came up in customer service

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organizations. I was building and scaling customer

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service organizations. That's full of humans

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who just want to be emotionally supported. They

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don't love the quick hits, right? My leader came

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up through sales organizations and could not

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see the difference between like what you are

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used to doing and what I am good at doing. uh

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and it was everything everything was well you

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didn't do it this way and this is how i would

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have done it and it's like you're paying me for

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a reason you like and i i did at one point in

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time i said with this person i'm like you don't

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you don't need me in this role you just need

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somebody who's going to take whatever order you

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give and execute whatever order that you give

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that's not me oh no i do need somebody in this

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role i do need a dynamic thinker i just need

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them to think the way that i think And I thought,

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again, you don't need me. And I'm a very type

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A personality. I've got to have a plan. I've

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got to know what's going on. I'm very structured.

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And I quit. I quit without a backup plan. I had

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just moved back into the country because my job

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told me I had to be back in the country. I moved

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back into the country for my job. I was living

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in an Airbnb. I had not signed a permanent lease.

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to where I was going next. And I quit my job.

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My husband was in the process of finding work.

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I have two teenagers and I quit my job. That

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is how desperate I felt to get out of this environment.

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And I remember at the time thinking, if I could

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just recommit, if I could just focus differently,

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if I could just show up this way, if I could

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just do these things. And it just wasn't right.

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It just was not the right fit for me. And so

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I started my own company and I went out to try

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and train managers because I felt like my experience

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came from a manager who just was not trained.

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I came from a manager that just didn't have the

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skills to deal with different types of personalities

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or different kinds of performers. And I started

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my company and I was not getting enough traction.

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And so in May of this year, I went to TikTok.

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It was after the ban. Like it came back like

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this has been a whirlwind for me. And I just

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start putting, putting out content, hoping that

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people would feel seen and not feel so alone

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and not feel like they were taking crazy pills

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when they couldn't understand why they were so

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miserable at work. Hmm. Well, you are totally

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killing it. And I think you have like what over

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a half a million people following you between

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TikTok and Instagram. So it's almost 700 ,000.

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So it's a, yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's been doing,

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it's been doing really, really well. That's amazing.

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Well, and like you said, and I mentioned it's,

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it's your approach and you talk about things

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that people don't always want to talk about.

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And, you know, I think part of the issue in our

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world is, is we get so focused on results that

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we don't focus on the people piece of it. And

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people may be really good at a job, but that

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doesn't mean they're good at managing people.

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And that's very different as a different skill

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set. And I think we, as a lot of organizations,

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don't do a good job of making sure managers are

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supported or trained or coached along the way,

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because that manager should have been kicked

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the first time they said, well, you're not doing

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it the way I would do it. It's like, oh my gosh,

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that's a major, major red flag. So that's awesome.

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So I love that you're doing this. So let's dig

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into some of these bad bosses of, you know, what

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does it look like and how do you, how do you

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not support that? How do you deal with that when

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you're on the receiving end? And I mean, perfect

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setup, the micromanager, which is clearly the

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one that pushed you over the edge and caused

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you to rage quit. So first and foremost, I think

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it's really important. And you touched on it,

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like so many individual contributors. So our

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ICs in the organization, are great at their jobs.

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They promote it into management. And there's

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a staggering statistic of 85 % of new managers

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never receive any formal training, which is just

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jarring. And so many organizations no longer

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even offer it. They don't even have in -house

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learning and development, let alone hiring external

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companies. And the first thing that's cut in

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the budget, before they even cut travel, they're

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cutting training. training budgets. So you have

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all of these people who go into these roles,

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they get into these roles and they start to,

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they just mimic what they've seen, right? They're

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just like, my, my old boss did it this way, whether

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it's good or bad, right? Because again, most

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of these people who were individual contributors

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were never really managed. They were high performers.

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They were good at their job. They showed up and

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did the work. They showed up and did all of these

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things. Because they were invested in whatever

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it is that they were doing, or they have this

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in its sense of performance, right? And so they

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go into these roles. And that is where so many

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of these bad managers are born. But then they

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just do all of these things and they manage the

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way that they saw or the way that they think

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they're supposed to do it. Or, you know, oh,

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well, if I bring down the hammer, then this is

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This is what a manager does because I'm a boss,

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right? Because again, they've never experienced

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this. So this is where so many micro managers

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are born because they were a high performer and

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they saw results and then they were promoted

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into this role. So obviously they were doing

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something right. And that is where you get that

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sense of, well, if you just do it my way. Right

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because they believe they'll they'll see somebody

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who performs differently than them, right? They'll

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see somebody who maybe is like a middle -of -the

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-road performer which Spoiler alert most of the

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best managers are middle -of -the -road performers,

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right? Oh, they're people who like are invested

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in the work, but it's not so much about this

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work It's about leading and growing teams and

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and so they're not always like the best performer

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But these high performers who are now managers

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are like, well, I wouldn't do it this way. And

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you have to do it this way because they have

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never had to experience a pivot. They've always

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been on that trajectory of like, I'm just really

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good at what I do and I don't have a lot of setbacks

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and I just kind of go forward. Right. And so

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that's how they feel like they have to manage

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their team. And then when they have these people

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who perform differently than they do. They are

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so concerned with failure, which again is not

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a familiar feeling for them. They're just like,

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Nope, you've got to do it this way. You've got

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to come in and you've got to do it this way.

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And this is the only way that you can do it.

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And that's seated in like a really deep, dark

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place of mistrust. It's really because they don't

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trust their individuals to do things different

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because they don't understand those things. Right.

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So that's how a lot of micromanagers are born

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and You know, they'll say the words that I love

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to hear them use it. Well, I'm a perfectionist,

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right? Right. I'm like welcome to business. There's

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no such thing as perfect, right? Or well, you

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know, I know and and my my manager when we were

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having it out I'm a control freak and I'm never

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going to not be a control freak right almost

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wearing it as a badge of honor Right. Like, well,

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I don't really care what you think because I

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am a control freaking. I love that about me.

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I'm like, okay, then you don't need me. Right.

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But that's where so much of it is where people

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are saying it, but really it comes from a place

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of trust. So micromanagers don't trust you to

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show up. Micromanagers don't trust your process.

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Micromanagers live in this, this environment

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of mistrust. Right. And I there are actually

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two kinds of micromanagers. There is the most

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popular micromanager is the micromanager who

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micromanages again, because they just things

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differently than they do. Right. And so they

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have to guide every single step of the process.

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And then the second type of micromanagement is

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I believe is an actual necessary evil. And these

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are the types of managers who you have shown

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them that you can't do the work. So you're constantly

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underperforming. You're late. You're saying things

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you shouldn't be saying. Like you are doing all

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of these things and you've shown that you are

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not ready for this role or you're not capable

00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:16.429
of doing this role completely. And that's when

00:13:16.429 --> 00:13:18.710
people have to step in and micromanage. And it

00:13:18.710 --> 00:13:22.169
is a tool to help up level people. So sometimes

00:13:22.169 --> 00:13:25.149
it very much is a necessary evil. But I want

00:13:25.149 --> 00:13:29.289
to talk about the bigger one, the big one where

00:13:29.289 --> 00:13:32.269
there are people who just don't trust you to

00:13:32.269 --> 00:13:36.950
do the things. And it's really important I work

00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:40.210
with a lot of clients one -on -one and I get

00:13:40.210 --> 00:13:42.129
a lot of clients who are like, oh, my manager

00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:44.190
just micromanages me to death. And I'm like,

00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:47.149
okay, tell me what they do. Tell me what they're

00:13:47.149 --> 00:13:51.570
doing. And the key to combating a micromanager

00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:55.250
is through observation. And this is what people

00:13:55.250 --> 00:13:58.990
do not pay enough attention to because they,

00:13:59.149 --> 00:14:01.629
we're all the star of our own soap opera, right?

00:14:01.629 --> 00:14:03.909
And so everything's happening to me. But if you

00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:06.840
take a minute and step back and, watch what is

00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.000
it that they need. So if they call you every

00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.139
single day at four o 'clock to get an update

00:14:12.139 --> 00:14:15.200
on where you are, you call them at three 45.

00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.159
You make the phone call before they have the

00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.720
time to call you because what they are communicating

00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.700
is they don't believe that you are updating them

00:14:24.700 --> 00:14:27.519
enough. They don't believe that you are going

00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:29.980
to give them all of the relevant information.

00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:32.200
And so they have to call you at four before they

00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.210
can close their laptop for the day and go home.

00:14:36.529 --> 00:14:38.850
Micromanagers manifest this all of the time.

00:14:38.889 --> 00:14:43.029
They tell you through their micromanagement exactly

00:14:43.029 --> 00:14:46.809
what they need from you. And if you can get proactive

00:14:46.809 --> 00:14:50.730
and learn how to get in front of that and give

00:14:50.730 --> 00:14:53.929
it what they need or show them that you're doing

00:14:53.929 --> 00:14:57.710
the thing they want you to do, that is one way

00:14:57.710 --> 00:15:01.610
to get a micromanager off your back. Interesting.

00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:04.970
Makes sense. I love that, and because you're

00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:07.090
right, it's observing them and realizing, okay,

00:15:07.169 --> 00:15:10.049
just start CCing them on stuff, even though it

00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:12.289
would pain you to have to copy them on that stuff.

00:15:12.690 --> 00:15:14.789
But if you can start to build that trust, hopefully

00:15:14.789 --> 00:15:16.970
most of them will change. I mean, I'm sure there's

00:15:16.970 --> 00:15:18.830
some that aren't. And then if you do have those

00:15:18.830 --> 00:15:20.990
ones, hopefully you can train. It's kind of like

00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:22.710
training your boss, right? You really are training

00:15:22.710 --> 00:15:25.570
your boss. They are telling you how they like

00:15:25.570 --> 00:15:27.690
to be communicated with. They're telling you

00:15:27.690 --> 00:15:30.509
what they need. and you're showing up and you're

00:15:30.509 --> 00:15:33.750
giving them that and they're backing off. Yeah.

00:15:34.169 --> 00:15:37.169
No, that makes sense. What happens if they don't?

00:15:37.289 --> 00:15:40.110
So then you might have a situation like I did

00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:42.990
where it was, Hey, I'm not going to back off

00:15:42.990 --> 00:15:45.370
because I am going to control every single move

00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:48.110
and I want you to be a robot and I want you to

00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:49.929
do these things. And then you have to decide

00:15:49.929 --> 00:15:54.100
if that's in your ability or not. Is this something

00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:57.139
that you can do? Can you show up? Can you surrender

00:15:57.139 --> 00:15:59.740
like your free will? And that's what I felt in

00:15:59.740 --> 00:16:02.179
my situation. I was like, I have to give you

00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:05.679
all of my free will just to keep my job. Then

00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:09.000
you decide, is this a worthwhile endeavor for

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.200
me? Is this the place that I want to be? Because,

00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:14.539
you know, you can train your boss and you can

00:16:14.539 --> 00:16:17.860
teach them how to show up for you in a different

00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:19.519
way. And again, they weren't trained initially.

00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.090
So this is you're, you're really customizing

00:16:22.090 --> 00:16:25.210
the training here. Right. But, but if they are

00:16:25.210 --> 00:16:26.710
unwilling to show up and they're unwilling to

00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:28.350
do those things, then you have to decide like,

00:16:28.629 --> 00:16:31.210
how invested am I in this position? Right. Is

00:16:31.210 --> 00:16:33.950
this the right place for me? Can I be personally

00:16:33.950 --> 00:16:35.769
fulfilled? And I think that's also where you

00:16:35.769 --> 00:16:37.549
tap into like, what are your personal needs?

00:16:37.570 --> 00:16:39.769
Like we can talk Maslow's all day long, right?

00:16:39.769 --> 00:16:42.850
But what are my needs? And you know, for me,

00:16:43.090 --> 00:16:45.250
my need is I need to feel trusted. I need to

00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:47.570
feel empowered. I need to feel autonomy, like

00:16:47.570 --> 00:16:50.759
all of these important things. And if I just

00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:53.059
am going through the motions, my mind is bored

00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:55.779
and I can't do these things. And then you evaluate,

00:16:55.779 --> 00:16:58.460
where do you go from there? Yeah. Well, that

00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:00.419
makes total sense. And it's funny because I can

00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:02.899
think of just two different friends in that situation,

00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.339
one who probably will end up rage quitting or

00:17:06.339 --> 00:17:07.680
leaving and the other one who's kind of like,

00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.380
you know what? I work out the pros and cons.

00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.559
I get to work from home. I do X, Y, and Z. It's

00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:13.660
fine. Like, you know, so it's just kind of balancing,

00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:15.759
you know, can you handle the situation? What

00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:18.359
can be changed? Can you train them and then making

00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.380
that decision? So yes, I think that's great.

00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:22.319
Great advice. All right. Let's let's talk about

00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.579
another one that I feel like we don't talk about

00:17:24.579 --> 00:17:27.460
a lot. And that's a narcissistic boss. And you

00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:29.839
had some great commentary, especially around

00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:32.759
women, which is so true because you say a narcissist.

00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:34.579
I don't know why I'm stereotypical. I think of

00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:38.210
a man, but How about when you have a narcissistic

00:17:38.210 --> 00:17:40.390
woman boss? How does that look and how do we

00:17:40.390 --> 00:17:43.200
handle that? So interestingly enough, their similarity,

00:17:43.539 --> 00:17:45.859
they're the same. They're the exact same type

00:17:45.859 --> 00:17:48.859
of person. But I think, again, to your point,

00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.079
we think only men in this, which I don't really

00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.299
understand why because I don't know either. You

00:17:53.299 --> 00:17:54.859
know, when you really start to unpack it, you

00:17:54.859 --> 00:17:57.380
hear about like narcissistic mothers and narcissistic

00:17:57.380 --> 00:18:00.740
grandmothers and kind of the control. And I am

00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:02.799
sure that there's lots and lots of studies that

00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:06.799
show us like how why it's so deeply seated in

00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.469
in women and in our in our female culture. But

00:18:11.469 --> 00:18:15.210
you know first and foremost Narcissist a narcissist

00:18:15.210 --> 00:18:18.210
is a very clinical term and we need to like just

00:18:18.210 --> 00:18:20.309
because they are mean Doesn't mean they're a

00:18:20.309 --> 00:18:22.289
narcissist just because they like ignore you.

00:18:22.329 --> 00:18:24.710
It doesn't mean they're a narcissist You know,

00:18:24.710 --> 00:18:26.410
I get a lot of people are like they're so mean

00:18:26.410 --> 00:18:30.789
and they say mean things to me. I'm like So I

00:18:30.789 --> 00:18:32.849
can't diagnose that they're a narcissist, but

00:18:32.849 --> 00:18:36.549
there are very similar patterns that are demonstrated

00:18:36.549 --> 00:18:38.509
when you're dealing with somebody who has narcissistic

00:18:38.509 --> 00:18:42.369
tendencies or is an actual narcissist. And these

00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:45.710
are people that never will take the blame. They'll

00:18:45.710 --> 00:18:48.769
never be accountable for anything. Right. So

00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:51.190
you could come and say, like, you punched me

00:18:51.190 --> 00:18:52.910
in the face and they'd be like, well, you made

00:18:52.910 --> 00:18:56.640
me. Like I felt backed into a corner. It was

00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.539
the only way that I could react to this situation,

00:18:59.539 --> 00:19:01.900
right? Like it's not because I misbehaved. It's

00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:03.779
actually because you did a thing and now I'm

00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:06.380
doing this thing, right? They have a tendency

00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.400
to gaslight you again, because they cannot be

00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:12.460
accountable. They cannot be the villain. They

00:19:12.460 --> 00:19:15.490
have to be the person. who is liked. They have

00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:18.609
to be the person who everybody thinks is capable

00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:21.670
and doing these things no matter what, right?

00:19:22.089 --> 00:19:25.809
And so they will gaslight you. They will, they're

00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:28.950
always in control of the narrative. They will

00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:32.910
praise you until you start to outshine them.

00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.980
And when you start to outshine them, they start

00:19:35.980 --> 00:19:38.839
to feel very threatened and then they will isolate

00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.460
you and they will shut you down and they will

00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:44.900
limit your visibility. And those things look

00:19:44.900 --> 00:19:47.220
like in the office, like you may have been invited

00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:50.559
to, you know, some some high profile meetings,

00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.059
right? And you've come to the meetings, you've

00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:54.079
been prepared, you've been able to speak to them,

00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:57.180
been able to do all of these things and you've

00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.289
gotten. accolades for that, or maybe your manager

00:20:00.289 --> 00:20:02.509
has been given praise, like, oh, that Linda,

00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:04.910
she sure is sharp, or she's sure really capable,

00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:08.670
right? This is really incredible. And what someone

00:20:08.670 --> 00:20:11.809
with narcissistic tendencies will do will...

00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:13.359
Oh, you know what? You're not really needed.

00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.440
Go ahead and prepare the deck for me. I don't

00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.180
actually need you in this meeting. Like it's

00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:19.779
going to be really, really high. It's going to

00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:21.779
be so high level. You don't really need to be

00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:23.440
in there. We're going to discuss things that

00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:26.039
you really don't need eyes on. I'll go ahead

00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.900
and take this information, but they will start

00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:32.000
to take credit for the work. Right. And then

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.160
they start to change the narrative about you.

00:20:35.619 --> 00:20:37.220
Oh, well, you know, Linda really wasn't that

00:20:37.220 --> 00:20:40.619
great. I really had to help her a lot. She really

00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:43.579
like. I really had to step in and, you know,

00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:46.380
it got to the point where it was so overwhelming

00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.920
to go in and have to re -correct her work that

00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.259
I just took it on, right? You're still doing

00:20:51.259 --> 00:20:54.140
the work, but they're taking the credit for it

00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:57.500
because you were outshining or you were the new

00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:02.299
shiny toy. And that just cannot happen. And women,

00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.480
it's so funny. I was telling one of my clients

00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.220
the other day, like women play the long game.

00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:08.779
Right? Like we, we play, we remember like I,

00:21:08.779 --> 00:21:11.140
I remember in junior high, like I remember the

00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:12.880
person who spread the rumor about me in junior

00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:15.259
high. And if I run into her, I'm going to be

00:21:15.259 --> 00:21:17.079
nice to her face, but I'm still going to remember.

00:21:17.259 --> 00:21:19.579
Right? Like we play, we play the long game. And

00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:23.400
I think when it comes to women in the workplace

00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.619
that demonstrate female narcissistic, like these

00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:29.619
characteristics, they just have this super long

00:21:29.619 --> 00:21:32.259
memory and they are more conniving than men.

00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:36.660
Right? Like men, men will insult you and probably

00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.480
hit you in the face and then they'll move on.

00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:41.339
It's not a long game for them. Even male narcissists,

00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:43.680
it's not so much a long game. It is still very

00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.759
much in the moment where women have got that

00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:48.880
long game. And that's really how it's showing

00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.460
up at work for people. But then it's like, okay,

00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.160
well, how do I combat this? How do I have these

00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:59.700
conversations? What do I do? And the thing too,

00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.339
and I can't stress this piece enough, because

00:22:03.339 --> 00:22:05.000
I get people who are like, well, how do I get

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.670
my narcissistic boss in trouble? You don't. You

00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:13.630
do not get them in trouble the reason they are

00:22:13.630 --> 00:22:16.609
in the position that they are in is They have

00:22:16.609 --> 00:22:19.329
learned how to navigate the politics. That's

00:22:19.329 --> 00:22:21.089
all it is, right? They've learned to navigate

00:22:21.089 --> 00:22:25.390
the politics They tell a compelling story to

00:22:25.390 --> 00:22:28.130
the people who are signing the checks. You cannot

00:22:28.130 --> 00:22:32.069
get them in trouble so it's not about trying

00:22:32.069 --> 00:22:35.410
to get them in trouble or Highlight who they

00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:38.289
are. It's about navigating them and protecting

00:22:38.289 --> 00:22:41.440
yourself and figuring out how to get out from

00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.819
underneath, because that is not a sustainable

00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:49.099
environment, right? And truthfully, like, I'm

00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:51.299
sure many therapists would say it's just like

00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:54.900
any abusive relationship. True. Like, you're

00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:56.940
not meant to be in those long, I mean, you're

00:22:56.940 --> 00:22:59.240
not meant to be in them at all, but you are not

00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.920
meant to be in them long term. Think of this

00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.279
as an abusive relationship and you need to learn

00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:07.920
how how do you survive? So you can protect yourself

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.599
protect your peace and make an exit plan and

00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:13.819
you do things like not reacting not engaging

00:23:13.819 --> 00:23:17.180
There's a theory called the gray rock theory

00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:19.799
where it's just you just don't give anything

00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.579
So they come and try and bait you with oh you

00:23:22.579 --> 00:23:27.059
look really tired today. I do that's weird Yeah,

00:23:27.099 --> 00:23:29.420
like you look really tired. Why are you so tired?

00:23:30.129 --> 00:23:33.250
You know, I didn't really, why would you, why

00:23:33.250 --> 00:23:34.849
would you say I look tired? Well, your hair is

00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:36.990
a mess. Oh, that's weird. I haven't even looked

00:23:36.990 --> 00:23:39.150
in the mirror today. Right? Like you are not

00:23:39.150 --> 00:23:42.589
giving. Oh, unbothered. Anything. Because what

00:23:42.589 --> 00:23:44.529
they're trying to do and they feed on the chaos

00:23:44.529 --> 00:23:46.769
and they feed on the drama and they're just trying

00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:48.630
to hook you. They're just trying to hook you

00:23:48.630 --> 00:23:51.210
into this conversation. So how can you not do

00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:55.250
that? Uh, or it's like, I talk a lot about like,

00:23:55.390 --> 00:23:57.369
it's a calm approach, right? Like you look them

00:23:57.369 --> 00:23:59.890
in the eye. Good morning. Hello. and you move

00:23:59.890 --> 00:24:01.990
on, right? It gives them a sense of stability.

00:24:02.130 --> 00:24:03.990
So you create the sense of stability, but you

00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:06.690
don't react. If they're blowing up in a meeting,

00:24:06.690 --> 00:24:09.930
it's, okay, I hear what you're saying. This is

00:24:09.930 --> 00:24:13.490
the next plan. It's all about keeping your cool

00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:17.630
and staying very on it. Like detachment is the

00:24:17.630 --> 00:24:21.529
key in this. And just, it's not, not working.

00:24:21.650 --> 00:24:23.589
Like you're still going to work. You're just

00:24:23.589 --> 00:24:26.809
not emotionally investing and you're not allowing

00:24:26.809 --> 00:24:30.690
them to emotionally invest. take from you. And

00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:33.410
then it's about documentation, right? If you

00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:35.569
are in some, a situation where you're feeling

00:24:35.569 --> 00:24:39.269
gaslit every conversation, you should send follow

00:24:39.269 --> 00:24:41.289
-up notes. Hey, this is what I took from the

00:24:41.289 --> 00:24:43.950
conversation. Let me know if I missed anything.

00:24:44.049 --> 00:24:46.789
Right. And it's not about getting their validation.

00:24:47.069 --> 00:24:49.009
It's about, Hey, this, this is what I took from

00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:51.769
the conversation. This is what I have. Let me

00:24:51.769 --> 00:24:54.150
know if I let me know. Right. And when they come

00:24:54.150 --> 00:24:56.329
and change the story on you, you then have a

00:24:56.329 --> 00:24:59.379
piece of documentation where you go, Nope. Here's

00:24:59.379 --> 00:25:01.480
actually, you know, this, this was the direction

00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.019
we were given. Can you show me when this changed?

00:25:04.180 --> 00:25:07.119
Can you help me understand? Right. And again,

00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.240
it's not doing anything to them, but it's protecting

00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:14.980
yourself. So you're not going, is it me? Am I

00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:20.500
the problem? Am I the, did that really, because

00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:23.210
you really start to second -guess yourself. Absolutely.

00:25:23.609 --> 00:25:25.650
No, that makes sense. And I love the documentation

00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:27.410
because I think we think about that from the

00:25:27.410 --> 00:25:29.130
manager perspective. Like, oh, if I have an employee

00:25:29.130 --> 00:25:30.690
who's struggling, I'm going to document, hey,

00:25:30.789 --> 00:25:32.910
this is what we talked about just to make sure.

00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:35.769
communications clear, but I love that from the

00:25:35.769 --> 00:25:37.890
employee standpoint where it's, you know, it's

00:25:37.890 --> 00:25:39.549
not to be snarky, it's not to whatever, but it's

00:25:39.549 --> 00:25:41.109
like, let's just make sure we're on the same

00:25:41.109 --> 00:25:43.589
page. And oh, by the way, two weeks ago, we said

00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:46.450
this, and now you're changing direction. So I

00:25:46.450 --> 00:25:48.849
love the documenting part of that. I'm sure some

00:25:48.849 --> 00:25:51.630
people would be offended or start to kind of

00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:53.430
like see that, but maybe that would slightly

00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:55.670
change something, probably not with a narcissist.

00:25:55.990 --> 00:25:59.069
But I love that protecting yourself because I,

00:25:59.069 --> 00:26:02.079
I, I luckily have never had a boss like that,

00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:04.700
but I've seen other bosses like that in a bigger

00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:07.299
organization. And, you know, they're really good

00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:09.640
at manipulation, right? So to your point, they're

00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:11.400
not going to change, number one. And number two,

00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.140
they're probably not going to get called out

00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:14.920
for it. And they're sometimes at the highest

00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.059
levels of organization. So protecting yourself

00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.980
and not engaging, I think, is just amazing advice

00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:24.059
and just trying to be chill and calm, which you're

00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:26.900
probably raging inside. But, you know, just having

00:26:26.900 --> 00:26:29.779
that really nice, calm approach that they're

00:26:29.779 --> 00:26:31.609
not giving that rowl out of you that they're

00:26:31.609 --> 00:26:33.630
looking for. It's like the little kid who's sitting

00:26:33.630 --> 00:26:35.609
there keeps, you know, picking at somebody wanting

00:26:35.609 --> 00:26:39.269
a reaction. Well, don't react. Yep. Oh, easier

00:26:39.269 --> 00:26:41.650
said than done, but I think it's great. It takes

00:26:41.650 --> 00:26:43.809
a lot of practice and it's a lot of like mirror

00:26:43.809 --> 00:26:46.130
work where you're like, okay, how am I going

00:26:46.130 --> 00:26:48.849
to say this? But when, when you find yourself

00:26:48.849 --> 00:26:50.990
in those situations, the advice I give to people

00:26:50.990 --> 00:26:54.680
is I say write down three responses. So and the

00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:56.220
reason you write it down is because it commits

00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:58.640
to memory. But write down three things that you

00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.400
could say that sound like you because you're

00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:03.339
never going to sound like me and I'm not going

00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:05.500
to sound like you. So my delivery is going to

00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:08.640
be totally different than yours. But this is

00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.440
how you prepare for this. You write down three

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:14.619
options. So you always have something to pick

00:27:14.619 --> 00:27:19.390
from, but it's already. of who you are and it's

00:27:19.390 --> 00:27:21.690
part of the conversation and it sounds like you

00:27:21.690 --> 00:27:24.549
and if you practice those things then you're

00:27:24.549 --> 00:27:27.609
because so often people are shocked right there

00:27:27.609 --> 00:27:29.470
they're like I can't believe somebody just yelled

00:27:29.470 --> 00:27:32.250
at me I'm at work and I can't believe this just

00:27:32.250 --> 00:27:36.029
happened and they go into like stunned mode but

00:27:36.029 --> 00:27:38.089
if you've already prepared for this and you already

00:27:38.089 --> 00:27:42.819
have your response handy it flows right And the

00:27:42.819 --> 00:27:45.200
first time it's scary. The second time it's less

00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:47.779
scary. And then after that, it just becomes very

00:27:47.779 --> 00:27:50.099
natural to who you are. You start doing it at

00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:51.960
home with your kids and you're like, why would

00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:55.130
you say that? Right. And practicing. I think

00:27:55.130 --> 00:27:57.289
any difficult conversation, sometimes you feel

00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:58.910
a little crazy. I used to do it in my car, like

00:27:58.910 --> 00:28:00.569
driving to work. I knew it was going to be a

00:28:00.569 --> 00:28:02.509
difficult conversation. So I would literally

00:28:02.509 --> 00:28:05.289
say it out loud. And then at least I'm not a

00:28:05.289 --> 00:28:07.029
good memorizer, but I couldn't memorize it. But

00:28:07.029 --> 00:28:09.210
at least having the conversation to myself in

00:28:09.210 --> 00:28:12.009
the car made me more prepared for those difficult

00:28:12.009 --> 00:28:15.789
conversations. 100%. I don't miss those car rides.

00:28:16.789 --> 00:28:19.130
All right. The last difficult boss we're going

00:28:19.130 --> 00:28:22.519
to talk about is the bully boss. Yep. Yep. So

00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.359
bullying and narcissists kind of like sit in

00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.079
a similar frame only like a bully can a bully.

00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:33.700
You can like maybe correct, right? So, and again,

00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.440
I, first and foremost, I think, you know, I grew

00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.460
up in the eighties and nineties. And when my

00:28:40.460 --> 00:28:41.960
kids started going to school, I was like, this

00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.579
is bullying behavior. We put up with a lot. We

00:28:45.579 --> 00:28:48.140
put up with a lot in the 80s and 90s, and I can't

00:28:48.140 --> 00:28:51.000
even think about beforehand. So first and foremost,

00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.240
I think the word bully gets kicked around a lot,

00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:59.240
right? And that's why bullying behavior is not

00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:02.819
considered illegal. So when we think about workplace

00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:05.880
behaviors that are tolerated and not tolerated,

00:29:06.539 --> 00:29:09.440
Things like sexual harassment things like hostile

00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.039
work environment things like actual harassment

00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.480
discrimination those are all legal terms that

00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.400
have a legal definition and bullying because

00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:23.519
it looks it's so many different ways and can

00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.619
demonstrate so many different ways and One person

00:29:27.619 --> 00:29:30.680
could conceive it Differently than somebody else

00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.839
could right? So that's why bullying is not illegal

00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.720
and it's very difficult to kind of write policies

00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.839
and things about that. Now, most larger companies,

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.140
if they have any kind of like HRT, like any HR

00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:45.900
systems, uh, there's, there's usually like, Hey,

00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:47.539
you have to learn about sexual harassment. You

00:29:47.539 --> 00:29:49.819
have to learn about bullying and discrimination.

00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:53.779
So we're seeing a lot more traction about bullying

00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:57.720
behavior in the workplace. But again, it's sometimes

00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:00.680
kicked around a little loosey goosey. So the

00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.400
first thing to do to determine if you're being

00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:08.829
bullied, is start writing everything down, right?

00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:11.190
And again, this is where people are like, I can't

00:30:11.190 --> 00:30:13.049
believe that my job, my full -time job is writing

00:30:13.049 --> 00:30:14.930
things down. And it's like, well, if you want

00:30:14.930 --> 00:30:17.410
to protect yourself and you want to get the support

00:30:17.410 --> 00:30:20.990
that you need and work someplace that this behavior

00:30:20.990 --> 00:30:24.250
is not allowed in, you have to start documenting

00:30:24.250 --> 00:30:26.809
it. And you have to think like a detective. You

00:30:26.809 --> 00:30:30.930
have to think like date, time, exactly what was

00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:34.059
said. And I like to take it a step further and

00:30:34.059 --> 00:30:38.359
write down like the ramification of that thing

00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.019
that was said or done. Right. And it's really

00:30:41.019 --> 00:30:43.880
crucial for you to write these things down because

00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:46.900
it helps you demonstrate a pattern of behavior.

00:30:47.259 --> 00:30:49.559
And sadly, whenever you are going to escalate

00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.339
this and you should be escalating bullying behavior,

00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:55.680
the burden of proof sits on your shoulders. And

00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.519
so you can't go to your HR team or you can't

00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:01.400
go to your director or you can't go to your C

00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.519
-suite person and be like, Linda bullies me.

00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:05.640
Because they'll go like, OK, well, what do they

00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:09.599
do? Well, it's just a feeling. I can't act on

00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.900
that. There's nothing that I can do. Right. And

00:31:11.900 --> 00:31:15.220
even if you don't escalate it internally and

00:31:15.220 --> 00:31:17.099
even if you feel like as you're going through

00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:19.440
it, it falls in those kind of protected behaviors.

00:31:20.029 --> 00:31:22.589
you still have to provide proof. So it's time

00:31:22.589 --> 00:31:24.789
for you to start writing things down. It also

00:31:24.789 --> 00:31:28.369
solidifies what is being done, right? You might

00:31:28.369 --> 00:31:33.250
find that this manager uses sarcasm. Let's, let's

00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:35.390
say that. And you feel like that's bullying behavior,

00:31:35.569 --> 00:31:37.569
right? But as you start to write it down, you're

00:31:37.569 --> 00:31:41.349
like, Oh, maybe I actually like this really,

00:31:41.789 --> 00:31:43.960
this really wasn't as the thing that it was,

00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:45.799
it doesn't discount your feeling in the moment,

00:31:45.819 --> 00:31:48.200
but that's when you go have a conversation with

00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.519
your manager and you say, Hey, listen, like the

00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.200
other day, when you said this thing, I really

00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.059
affected the way that I felt, or, you know, I

00:31:55.059 --> 00:31:58.259
don't process sarcasm. And so when you do this,

00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:02.400
like, I don't know if you're being silly or if

00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:06.079
you're trying to cause harm, right? We can stop

00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:09.599
bullying behavior more often than not by having

00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:12.779
a conversation about it and saying, Hey, When

00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:16.440
you do this thing, this is how it affects me.

00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:18.980
Can we come up with a different plan? Can we

00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:21.160
do this differently? Doesn't mean it's not a

00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:23.599
scary conversation. It's a terrifying conversation.

00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:27.920
But you can shut down because so many people

00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:32.220
lack self -awareness that they might go, oh,

00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:37.039
my word. I did not know that this is a thing,

00:32:37.180 --> 00:32:40.250
right? Or I joke with everybody this way. Well,

00:32:40.250 --> 00:32:43.630
it doesn't feel like a joke to me. It feels personal,

00:32:43.630 --> 00:32:45.890
right? It feels like you're attacking me in this

00:32:45.890 --> 00:32:48.890
situation. This is how I feel or this is the

00:32:48.890 --> 00:32:52.329
ramifications of this. So can we make some changes?

00:32:52.390 --> 00:32:56.170
So that's the first step in even identifying

00:32:56.170 --> 00:32:59.329
a bully is writing everything down, getting really

00:32:59.329 --> 00:33:02.769
specific. And then, you know, we have these amazing

00:33:02.769 --> 00:33:06.910
tools like chat GPT where you can literally take

00:33:06.910 --> 00:33:10.019
all of your documentation. and put it in and

00:33:10.019 --> 00:33:12.920
say, I feel like I'm being bullied. These are

00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.799
the things that are being done. Am I being bullied?

00:33:16.099 --> 00:33:19.019
Right? And GPD will give you an opinion. That's

00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:22.099
amazing. I never thought about that. It's amazing.

00:33:22.180 --> 00:33:24.559
It's amazing what you can find out. So you can

00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:26.619
go through, because sometimes we also look at

00:33:26.619 --> 00:33:29.700
it through our emotional lens. And so we apply

00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:32.220
it, right? Or we go tell the people in our lives

00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:35.039
these stories and they're like, oh yeah, you're

00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:36.920
totally being bullied. And then you're like,

00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:41.000
I am? Right. So it's a way to like be impartial

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:43.299
with this information. And then, like I said,

00:33:43.339 --> 00:33:46.660
the very first step, if you can, right now, if

00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:48.599
they're physically intimidating you, that's a

00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.920
different story. Go to HR immediately. Right.

00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:52.740
Right. But if you go through and you're writing

00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:55.059
these things down and you're just like, yeah,

00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.700
I'm being bullied. If you can have the conversation,

00:33:58.099 --> 00:34:00.279
have the conversation with your manager. Again,

00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:03.299
they're all untrained humans that are just walking

00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.920
around, hoping for the best. have the conversation.

00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:08.900
If you feel like you can't have the conversation

00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:10.880
or you feel threatened or you feel that's then

00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.079
you take that documentation and you escalate

00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.489
it and the best place to escalate it. is within

00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:19.730
your HR team if you have an HR team. If you don't

00:34:19.730 --> 00:34:21.570
have an HR team and you're in the United States,

00:34:21.610 --> 00:34:23.750
there are outside organizations that you can

00:34:23.750 --> 00:34:27.130
escalate to, the EEOC being one of them. So these

00:34:27.130 --> 00:34:29.090
are places where you can create escalations,

00:34:29.230 --> 00:34:31.110
you can create records, and you can help protect

00:34:31.110 --> 00:34:34.590
yourself from this behavior. But again, you have

00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:38.090
to document, document, document. And then again,

00:34:38.469 --> 00:34:42.000
similar to a narcissistic manager, you've got

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.840
to get out. Now you can escalate and sometimes

00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.579
your team will come in and jump in. Sometimes

00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:49.980
your team won't. Sometimes your HR team will

00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:52.820
be like, oh, you're being sensitive or this really

00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:56.900
isn't an issue or, okay, if people don't have

00:34:56.900 --> 00:35:00.360
your back, then it is time to go. No, that's,

00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.239
that's great. And, you know, all three of these

00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:04.219
types of bosses we talked about are similar,

00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:06.619
but different. And I think the big takeaway is

00:35:06.969 --> 00:35:08.650
you have to deal with all of them, right? Like

00:35:08.650 --> 00:35:10.690
you just can't sit back and be miserable and

00:35:10.690 --> 00:35:13.789
take it and become so small because you think

00:35:13.789 --> 00:35:16.250
you deserve it or there's no way out or whatever

00:35:16.250 --> 00:35:18.050
it is. So it's, it's all a little different,

00:35:18.170 --> 00:35:20.150
but whether it's documenting, having the conversation

00:35:20.150 --> 00:35:21.550
with them, because to your point, I do agree,

00:35:21.730 --> 00:35:24.130
self -awareness is a major issue for so many

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:26.690
people. So, and especially in the bully situation,

00:35:26.769 --> 00:35:28.590
they may have no idea they're doing it. They

00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:30.389
think they're funny, especially sarcastic people,

00:35:30.389 --> 00:35:33.019
I think get a little. close to the line at the

00:35:33.019 --> 00:35:35.619
time. So I think the big takeaway with all this

00:35:35.619 --> 00:35:38.599
is, is you need to get help, you need to document,

00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.159
you need to, or the last straw is to not rage

00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:46.199
quit, hopefully. Or do if you feel like that's

00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:48.039
your only option. Or do it and become a TikTok

00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:51.119
star. I mean, it's such a great story. I love

00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.480
that so much. So in addition to all that, when,

00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.099
now that you've been doing this for a few months

00:35:56.099 --> 00:35:58.300
and you get such engagement, what has been the

00:35:58.300 --> 00:36:01.300
one topic or video that people have just been

00:36:01.300 --> 00:36:03.800
like, Oh my god, this is me and I just are so

00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:05.739
engaged with or you've gotten so much feedback

00:36:05.739 --> 00:36:08.519
from the last few months. You know, I've actually

00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:10.340
had a number of them. I've been very fortunate.

00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:15.039
I think the probably my very first viral post

00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:19.519
continues to get a lot of play. And it's about

00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:23.420
talking about managing high performers and how

00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:25.760
you know, you have to show up differently for

00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.679
them. You have to show up. You have to be accountable

00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:31.699
because when you're working with a high performer,

00:36:32.139 --> 00:36:34.380
a high performer holds themselves accountable.

00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:37.059
They are somebody who shows up, you know, we

00:36:37.059 --> 00:36:38.840
talked about it a little earlier. They are the

00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:40.940
person who shows up and gives a hundred percent

00:36:40.940 --> 00:36:44.219
because that's who they are. They want, they're

00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:45.840
bought into the process. They're bought into

00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.099
the mission and managing a high performer can

00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:53.909
be very challenging. If sometimes you you can

00:36:53.909 --> 00:36:56.630
give them just a little bit of direction and

00:36:56.630 --> 00:36:59.170
then you need to just get out of their way, right?

00:36:59.570 --> 00:37:02.449
And then it's alignment. It's like, oh, you know

00:37:02.449 --> 00:37:04.050
what? We might've gone a little far on this one.

00:37:04.130 --> 00:37:06.630
Let's pull this back a little bit. But I would

00:37:06.630 --> 00:37:09.090
say that my high performer post, which was my

00:37:09.090 --> 00:37:11.309
very first one, which has gone like 9 million

00:37:11.309 --> 00:37:14.610
on TikTok and 9 million on Instagram. Yeah. It's

00:37:14.610 --> 00:37:17.530
probably still, I still get pop -ups where it's

00:37:17.530 --> 00:37:19.130
like, oh, this one was just played. And I'm like,

00:37:19.130 --> 00:37:22.150
really? Cool. And that was clear back in May.

00:37:22.900 --> 00:37:25.340
That's amazing. And yeah, we could talk all day

00:37:25.340 --> 00:37:26.940
about the different challenges of that. But I

00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:28.599
think the whole other piece of being a manager

00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:31.039
too is you can't treat everyone the same, right?

00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:33.559
Like you have to support everyone on your team

00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:35.519
differently. And I just would always crack up

00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:38.780
when I would have one -on -ones and the difference

00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:41.019
in the conversations was just insane. Like some

00:37:41.019 --> 00:37:43.519
people needed more hand -holding and more details

00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:45.639
and let's go through to -do lists and like...

00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:47.409
painful details, because I'm not a detailed person.

00:37:47.789 --> 00:37:49.349
And others high performers were like, here's

00:37:49.349 --> 00:37:52.050
three things to do some gone, gone, like 10 minutes,

00:37:52.250 --> 00:37:54.570
which again is great. So you know, if you are

00:37:54.570 --> 00:37:57.389
managing people, it's realizing that one size

00:37:57.389 --> 00:38:00.030
does not fit all. So it's even more challenging.

00:38:00.130 --> 00:38:02.210
That's even why it's more fun to manage people.

00:38:02.789 --> 00:38:05.070
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like being a parent

00:38:05.070 --> 00:38:08.469
to many, many, many children. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

00:38:08.489 --> 00:38:10.190
You have to treat them differently. And you have

00:38:10.190 --> 00:38:12.010
to give empathy differently. And you have to

00:38:12.010 --> 00:38:14.230
care for them differently and show interest differently.

00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:16.510
Uh, one, you need to be like, why aren't you

00:38:16.510 --> 00:38:18.110
more like your sister? And the other one be like,

00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:20.829
be less like your sister, right? Like it's just,

00:38:20.969 --> 00:38:23.230
it's kind of like that. That's awesome. Well,

00:38:23.250 --> 00:38:25.010
this has been amazing advice. If people want

00:38:25.010 --> 00:38:27.070
to connect with you and be, when hopefully let's

00:38:27.070 --> 00:38:28.889
get you to a million followers in the next few

00:38:28.889 --> 00:38:31.610
months. So where can they find you? Yeah. You

00:38:31.610 --> 00:38:34.269
can find me on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook.

00:38:34.889 --> 00:38:36.750
Uh, and well, and I mean, you can find me also

00:38:36.750 --> 00:38:40.110
on LinkedIn, but it's Linda leads. Linda is with

00:38:40.110 --> 00:38:43.929
a Y and Linda dot leads on. all of those platforms

00:38:43.929 --> 00:38:47.650
and on LinkedIn, it's Linda again with a Y Harvey.

00:38:48.010 --> 00:38:50.630
And I use the same picture, so I'm easily identifiable

00:38:50.630 --> 00:38:53.250
across all the platforms. That's amazing. Well,

00:38:53.289 --> 00:38:54.989
Linda, thank you so much for being here. We greatly

00:38:54.989 --> 00:38:57.409
appreciate your insights. Thank you so much.

00:38:57.469 --> 00:38:59.590
It was fun. Alright, I love this conversation

00:38:59.590 --> 00:39:01.610
with Linda because it wasn't just, here's what's

00:39:01.610 --> 00:39:04.929
wrong. It was, here's what to do next. If you're

00:39:04.929 --> 00:39:06.809
dealing with a micromanager, you heard how much

00:39:06.809 --> 00:39:09.010
of it comes down to trust and how getting proactive

00:39:09.010 --> 00:39:12.090
can sometimes shift the dynamic. If it's a narcissistic

00:39:12.090 --> 00:39:14.969
leader, Linda laid out why staying calm and detached

00:39:14.969 --> 00:39:17.869
matters, plus the power of documentation and

00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:20.090
those follow up notes to keep the record straight

00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:23.050
when the story changes. And if it's bullying

00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:25.650
behavior, you've got a clear path. Document the

00:39:25.650 --> 00:39:27.969
details, escalate right away, and if If no one

00:39:27.969 --> 00:39:31.190
has your back, it may be time to go. If this

00:39:31.190 --> 00:39:33.670
episode, unfortunately, hit home, send it to

00:39:33.670 --> 00:39:36.010
a friend or a teammate who needs it because nobody

00:39:36.010 --> 00:39:38.429
should have to white knuckle their way through

00:39:38.429 --> 00:39:40.949
work. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow

00:39:40.949 --> 00:39:43.769
or subscribe and leave a quick rating or review.

00:39:43.929 --> 00:39:47.230
It helps more women to find our show. Thanks

00:39:47.230 --> 00:39:48.690
for getting loud and lifted.