Say What You Mean—Without Being Mean: Sarita Maybin on Tough Truths with Tact

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Welcome to Loud and Lifted, the women in leadership

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show where we trade fluff for practical tools.

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I'm your host, Betsy Hamm. Today, we're talking

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about saying the hard things nicely. My guest,

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communications expert and bestselling author,

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Sarita Mabin, built a career helping people say

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what you mean, mean what you say, without being

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mean. In this conversation, Sarita breaks down

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her AIR framework, awareness, impact, request,

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shareable phrases that lower defenses, and the

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tiny wording swaps that protect your credibility.

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We'll hit listing under fire, body language triggers,

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yes, the finger wag, and if you've ever thought,

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I don't want to sound harsh, or I'm tired of

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being walked on, then this episode is for you.

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Let's get lifted. Sarita Mabin, welcome to Loud

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and Lifted. Thank you so much for being here.

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This is great. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

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So I had the pleasure a few weeks ago to hear

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you speak at a conference here in Pennsylvania,

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and you were about maybe three minutes, maybe

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five will go into your presentation. I was like,

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wow. I need to have this woman on loud and lifted.

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You have this great platform where you're talking

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about communication, which is something we always

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need to be intentional about, but you have a

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different take. And you have written two books

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about this, about being nice. So how did you

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even come to this becoming your platform? And

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how did you decide you can still what you need

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to say, but say it in a nice way? Well, you know,

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you probably know from my bio that in my other

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life, I worked in university administration.

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And I worked at four different large state universities

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in that other career. And one of the things I

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noticed is that miscommunication was rampant.

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It just seemed that people weren't addressing

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things or if it was uncomfortable, you know,

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they would just ghost you and nothing would get

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done because they didn't want to have the difficult

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conversation. And so I started realizing that

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sometimes we just have to suck it up and say,

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hey, you know what, let's let's just talk and

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get this straightened out. So It was kind of

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always haunting me during that. And then, so

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when I started as a speaker, I realized it was

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not just in the state university arena. It was

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everywhere, even at home, that we're not saying

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what we need to say. And so my mantra on life

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or my motto, I guess, became say what you mean,

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mean what you say, don't say it mean. I know

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that's not grammatically correct, but that's

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kind of my mantra. We can still say what we need

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to say, but don't have to be ugly about it. Absolutely.

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And you know what? You're right. No matter what

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your role is, no matter what your age is, we

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all deal with this. We all have those tough conversations

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that we don't want to have, or maybe you have

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to be confrontational. And we just sometimes

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struggle with going about that. And I think especially

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as women, sometimes if you don't have the right

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approach, you might be called some certain names.

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So let's talk about that framework with really

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when it comes down to those tough truths with

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tact. How do you approach a conversation? What's

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that go -to structure for a hard conversation

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while you still feel like you're being Well,

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you know, I always say that the number one thing

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is to keep in mind that they may not, the person

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may not know there's an issue. I always say give

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them the benefit of the doubt. And it's interesting

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to me because I remember one time a woman came

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to me in one of my keynotes, after my keynote,

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she says, Sarita, I think my coworker is laying

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awake at night plotting my demise. Those were

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her actual words, which were shocking. And I

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said, no, I suspect you're laying awake at night.

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She's probably sleeping soundly. But after we

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talked a bit, she was like, yeah, I guess the

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woman really doesn't even know there's an issue.

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So. My framework starts with awareness. I have

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an acronym AIR, A -I -R, and the A stands for

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awareness. Are they even aware of the fact that

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there's a problem? And sometimes we have to say,

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hey, I don't know if you realize, but here's

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what I'm seeing. And we might have to start there.

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And then the I is impact. When you do this, here's

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what I'm seeing the result of that is. And then

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the R is, of course, requesting something different.

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We can't always assume that people know what

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to do. We always say, well, surely they must

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know. but no, maybe they don't know. So A for

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awareness, I for impact, and P in our rhythm

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for requests, air. I love that. That's so simple

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and so easy in your survey. I've certainly been

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in that situation where you're feeling really

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bothered by the way someone's talking to you

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or maybe they're not talking to you and they

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might not realize it. It's not always malicious.

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We're all doing a million things and we're, you

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know, having lots of conversations. So I just

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being aware. This is great. And it sounds so

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simple, right? Yeah. Giving people the benefit

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of the doubt, I think is really a good place

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to start, as soon as they don't have negative

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intentions. Sure. So if you do that and you start

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to create this dialogue with somebody, like,

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where do people tend to go wrong? Like, is it

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the tone? Is it the timing? Is it the wording?

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Where do we trip up? Sometimes we trip up by

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immediately blaming the other person. And I feel

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like sometimes that comes out, you know, in our

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language. You know, we say, well, you never.

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And are you always, are you better? And I always

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say that's like the finger wagging conversation

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or the finger wagging approach. And I hate to

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say this, we do that sometimes more at home than

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we do at work. And I remember years ago, someone

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said to me that home is where we go when we're

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tired of being nice. And you try all these perfect

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phrases at work and in our businesses, and then

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we go home, I'm like, you've been jerked. And

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then you go into the ugly, ugly finger wag mode.

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Oh, that's so true. I definitely might be guilty

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of that with my husband and my children. We're

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not going to like admit that to them. So hopefully

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I don't hear this, but that's true. You just

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almost run out of patience by the time you get

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home and you kind of let your guard down and

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don't always have that right tone or approach

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and definitely don't seek to understand that

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that might be an issue. Exactly. I'm telling

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all my own issues. So I think we all have the

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same issues. Right. Absolutely. Is there a time

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in these situations where you decide to address

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it or just let it go? Or do you feel like you

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always address it? I remember someone someone

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told me years ago that the definition of resentment

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is like taking poison and waiting for the other

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person to die. And so so we're basically over

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here going, I can't believe they're doing this.

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You know, we're like dying over here. And really.

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It's almost like I would say the clue is like

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when you have to interact with that person or

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run across that person and you feel yourself

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tensing up and just bracing yourself like, oh,

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goodness, I have to talk to them. So in other

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words, you're taking that poison, the proverbial

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poison, and it's starting to affect your attitude.

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You're starting to feel some angst, feel some

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kind of way about that person. For me, that's

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always a clue that maybe I need to just have

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a conversation because every time I see them,

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I'm just like. Sure. And if you, I guess that's

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a great point, because if you literally can't

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let it go, right, we have those times where we're

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really stewing on something we can't move on.

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Well, that definitely needs to be addressed.

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You can't let that continue to poison you. I

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love that. Yes, yes, exactly. So I love the air.

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That was a great concept. So when you're starting

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those conversations, is there any like good conversation

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starters as a way to address that, that you feel

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like you're not attacking somebody? You know,

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I think again, it comes down to the wording.

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I always feel like the we wording, you know,

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and set the we together wording as opposed to

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the you again, finger wagging wording. And so

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sometimes I find myself saying, you know, let's

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talk because I'd like to figure out how we can

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move forward. We seem to be at a stalemate or

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something like that. So I use the let's or my

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favorite one is how can we resolve this? And

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some of these, as you saw in my presentation,

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I do my top 10 positive communication phrases.

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And I love talking about the questions. Would

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you be willing to hear some feedback? That's

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one of my phrases. Or how can we resolve this

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is another phrasing. So sometimes starting out

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with, would you consider some feedback? Or let's

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talk about this. Would you be willing to have

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a conversation? Would you consider some new ideas?

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So I love the phrasing because it keeps us from

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being in that pushing mode. It's more like a.

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Yeah, I love that, that it's collaborative and

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you're not accusing anybody of anything right

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there. So you're trying to like, let's be proactive.

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Let's solve this. Let's, I guess really it's

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just being problem solvers versus just accusing

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someone. What are some of those other ones on

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that list? Problem solvers. Yeah, I think that's

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the key. And sometimes I really think that's

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funny that you should use the term problem solvers

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because I feel like in our heart of hearts, sometimes

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we really just want to be right. Well, we don't

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necessarily want to solve the problem. We just

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want to be right. Right. And I remember someone

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said years ago, you know, you can have a relationship

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or you can be right. And I really, really want

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to be right. So but that sometimes flies in the

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face of having a relationship. And so looking

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at, you know, how can we work together to resolve

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this? Or as you say, problem solving. focus instead

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of, you know, I'm going to show them the error

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of their ways. That they're wrong. Yeah. I mean,

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don't get me wrong. We're sometimes like to prove

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that people are wrong, certain people, but you

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know, that's not going to be problem solving

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or definitely proactive. And it's funny because

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you always hear that line like, choose your battles,

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right? So sometimes, and I think of that personally

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and professionally, there's been times where

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it's like, you know what, this might not be the

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one that I'm going to like fall on the sword

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for, but Let's figure out how to have the conversation

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and be productive about it versus causing like

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some major confrontation. Yeah. And if we fight

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every battle, we would just be exhausted. I mean,

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some battles are not worthy of our energy. Right.

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Exactly. Does anything change in that approach?

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And I'm assuming not, but just want to make sure

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when say this is your boss that you kind of have

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to push back on or, you know, we'll go problem

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solving still. But how does that work when you're

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dealing with a superior? Oh, I love that question.

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It reminds me of a woman who asked me one time,

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Sarita, how do you pull rank when you have no

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rank to pull? And I just thought, boy, that's

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just like the best question ever because so often

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we are trying to address things and we really

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have no rank or any authority. And really sometimes

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that's even with our colleagues. And then, of

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course, as you say, more so when we go up the

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chain to a supervisor. And I think, again, the

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question format, if we're saying to the boss,

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we might have some issues about some things happening

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in the department. We would never go to them

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and say, you know, I need to talk to you about

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some things that need to be fixed. That's not

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going to get a good response, but we might instead

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say. Would you be open to hearing some ideas

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I have about some things in the department that

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we can change? So again, would you be open to,

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would you consider, what do you think about?

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So it's the question format that allows us to

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soften it and then of course go up the chain.

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Yeah, I think that's my go -to strategy probably

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for a lot of things. What do you think about,

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would it be possible to, would you consider?

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Those are great. And it's funny because, you

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know, we talk about like seeking to understand,

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which sometimes I think can come across a little

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snarky depending on how you approach that. But

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those are again, they're collaborative, they're

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problem solving, and they seem like you're being

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positive versus sometimes I think seeking to

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understand can be a little. snarky, or maybe

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it's just the way I say it. I don't know. Well,

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you know, it's funny that you, I love that. I

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love the fact that you address the fact that

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it's how we say it. And sometimes when I share

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my phrases, my favorite top 10 phrases, people

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will push back against some of the phrases. And

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one that gets a lot of pushback is a favorite

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phrase of mine, which is I would appreciate,

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you know, I would say to someone, you know, I

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appreciate you giving me a heads up next time.

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Like if somebody's dropped something on you at

00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:42.639
the 11th hour, you know, I appreciate you giving

00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:45.039
me a heads up or maybe a couple of days notice.

00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:48.360
That's to say, I would appreciate is very different

00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:51.139
than, well, I would appreciate. Cause now we've

00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:52.919
got our hand on our hip and we're doing all this

00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.159
nonverbal ugliness. So, so it's sometimes that,

00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.759
that snarky tone, as you say, or it's even that

00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.340
the whole, the body thing, when we get into our

00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:04.860
little attitude, you know, then that, that ruins

00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:07.610
everything. That's a great point. And so you

00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:09.350
bring up the physical piece of this, you know,

00:12:09.429 --> 00:12:10.730
what are some of those things that are going

00:12:10.730 --> 00:12:12.350
to trigger people or what are some of the things

00:12:12.350 --> 00:12:15.289
that we can do to make sure that we're not, you

00:12:15.289 --> 00:12:17.470
know, getting people on the defense. Yeah. And

00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:19.690
you've seen me demonstrate one of them, which

00:12:19.690 --> 00:12:23.149
I was talking about the proverbial finger pointing

00:12:23.149 --> 00:12:25.809
the wagon, the finger like this, but I'm always

00:12:25.809 --> 00:12:28.730
shocked that I see people in conversations actually

00:12:28.730 --> 00:12:31.409
literally. you know, wagging their finger in

00:12:31.409 --> 00:12:34.409
somebody's face. You know, I just thought of

00:12:34.409 --> 00:12:36.389
a story. I don't I don't share this story much.

00:12:36.389 --> 00:12:37.990
But I remember when I worked in the university

00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:40.350
arena, I had a woman who was a colleague. She

00:12:40.350 --> 00:12:42.889
was a department director as I was. But I always

00:12:42.889 --> 00:12:45.070
say she thought she was the boss of me. And so

00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:47.190
she was forever trying to dictate how I should

00:12:47.190 --> 00:12:49.929
run my department. And I remember one day she

00:12:49.929 --> 00:12:54.029
did a little finger waggle. And I said to her,

00:12:54.090 --> 00:12:56.789
you know, I appreciate you not pointing your

00:12:56.789 --> 00:13:02.490
finger. And and she And then the funniest thing

00:13:02.490 --> 00:13:04.610
happened, this is a weirdest thing. The next

00:13:04.610 --> 00:13:10.289
time she talked to me, she goes. It was almost

00:13:10.289 --> 00:13:13.370
like you could see her struggling, like a metamorphosis

00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:15.549
was occurring right before my very eyes as she

00:13:15.549 --> 00:13:18.289
was trying to, because clearly that finger wagging

00:13:18.289 --> 00:13:21.929
had been her MO for many years. And when I called

00:13:21.929 --> 00:13:23.730
her out on it, it's like the next time it was

00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:25.389
like she didn't know what to do with herself.

00:13:27.769 --> 00:13:30.809
But I appreciated the effort. I appreciated the

00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:34.409
fact that she was open to not really putting

00:13:34.409 --> 00:13:36.710
her finger on my face when she talked because

00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:38.509
that's obviously something that will turn people

00:13:38.509 --> 00:13:41.470
off when we do that. And then on the flip side,

00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:43.269
when someone is talking to us and we're doing

00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:45.690
this whole arm, you've heard the closed body

00:13:45.690 --> 00:13:49.909
posture with the arms folded. That's a clear

00:13:49.909 --> 00:13:51.610
signal to people that you're saying, oh, I don't

00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:54.169
want to hear it. So on both sides of the fence,

00:13:54.330 --> 00:13:57.169
I think there's some offenses. uh, that we do

00:13:57.169 --> 00:13:59.409
a non -verbal. Absolutely. And even like that

00:13:59.409 --> 00:14:01.509
sitting back really far in your chair, whether

00:14:01.509 --> 00:14:04.090
you're on a team's meeting or you're in a conference

00:14:04.090 --> 00:14:05.909
room, you know, or turning away from the person.

00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:08.009
I think it's easy to kind of show how you're

00:14:08.009 --> 00:14:09.669
putting up that wall if you don't think the way

00:14:09.669 --> 00:14:11.509
someone is communicating or what they're saying.

00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:13.389
But it's funny that you mentioned the finger

00:14:13.389 --> 00:14:15.190
pointing and I had a boss who did that early

00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:17.429
on in the career and hers wasn't so much in your

00:14:17.429 --> 00:14:19.330
face, but like she'd be in a meeting going like

00:14:19.330 --> 00:14:22.529
this a lot. And to your point, she didn't realize

00:14:22.529 --> 00:14:25.450
what kind of impact that had on her team. So

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.659
somehow, somewhere along the line, somebody was

00:14:27.659 --> 00:14:29.600
like, Kim, you got to stop. Well, she knows so.

00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:31.580
I'll call her out on this. She was my first podcast

00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:34.259
guest. But like, you have to stop doing this.

00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:37.519
And she was like, oh my gosh, I don't mean that.

00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:39.779
So there was a time as, you know, maybe we called

00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:41.620
her out once or twice, but then she would catch

00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:44.740
herself and be like, yeah, exactly. So, you know,

00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:46.620
sometimes it's that awareness of how you're showing

00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:49.440
up. Well, and that's exactly right. In fact,

00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.799
going back to the AIR, you know, awareness, impact

00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.539
and request, that's a perfect example of the

00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:57.620
A, that the person giving them the benefit of

00:14:57.620 --> 00:14:59.980
the doubt, maybe they didn't realize that. And

00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.259
sometimes you have to say, hey, if you realize

00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:03.799
it, when you're in the meeting and you're playing

00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:06.279
like that, sometimes that'll come across as a

00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:08.360
little overbearing. I don't know if you realize

00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:10.759
that coming across that way is probably not your

00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:14.200
intention. But certainly it may be interpreted

00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.100
that way. So we're giving them the benefit of

00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:17.919
the doubt that maybe they don't know that this

00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.259
little thing or whatever it is. Whatever it is.

00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:22.679
So speaking of intention, I think sometimes,

00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:23.919
and especially women, I'm going to be a little

00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.980
stereotypical, try to do things that they think

00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:29.200
are going to sound nicer or soften it. And some

00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.779
of them that I think of as like, oh, to be honest

00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:35.200
or no offense, or maybe they'll say something

00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.000
and like, oh, I'm just kidding, after they hear

00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.769
it come out. What do we do about that, right?

00:15:39.889 --> 00:15:41.529
Like, what if that's one of our little crutches

00:15:41.529 --> 00:15:43.990
that we do to soften things? Is that a good approach?

00:15:44.389 --> 00:15:45.889
And if not, how do we replace that? I love that

00:15:45.889 --> 00:15:49.090
you used the word crutch. It is a crutch because

00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:51.590
we're leaning to that. We're leaning on it as

00:15:51.590 --> 00:15:54.429
a way to maybe make it easier or more comfortable

00:15:54.429 --> 00:15:57.370
for us. Yep. Unfortunately, though, when we qualify,

00:15:57.450 --> 00:15:59.850
those are qualifiers. If we use those qualifiers,

00:16:00.309 --> 00:16:05.340
that tends to rob us of our authority. sometimes

00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:07.700
even makes us come across as more negative. Sure.

00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.480
And as women, we do tend to do that. You know,

00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.419
well, I don't mean to offend you, but I know

00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:17.019
I'm new here, but I just this may not be important.

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.919
But any time we lead into something with a qualifier,

00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.460
it just tends to be, as you say, a crush. But

00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:26.659
then it also is crippling to use that analogy.

00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.700
Yeah. In terms of authority. Yeah. And there's

00:16:30.700 --> 00:16:32.320
so much in communication. It's funny. I just

00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.559
had this conversation the other day where even

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.039
if we're in a meeting and we think we have a

00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.659
good idea, but we put that like, well, I'm not

00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:40.700
sure if this is a good idea or this would be

00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:42.919
dumb. I was thinking, and then you say your idea,

00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.279
you just killed your credibility. So there's

00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.360
that piece of it too, where we're putting those

00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.720
precursors on words when we're going to give

00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:51.480
an idea or when we want to give feedback, it

00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:53.580
just kills the credibility, makes people stop.

00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.039
believing in what you're saying. And you know,

00:16:56.059 --> 00:16:57.960
what's interesting too, is the other side of

00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.220
that on the end, sometimes we put things on the

00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:02.860
end, like, I think we need to move forward with

00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:05.619
this project, okay? Or I think this will be a

00:17:05.619 --> 00:17:09.579
great idea for our department, you think? And

00:17:09.579 --> 00:17:14.720
so we, again, rob ourselves of our authority

00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.859
and kind of push ourselves down as we put those

00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:19.940
on the back end as well, where we're saying,

00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.329
well, I'm not really sure. Yeah, that's a great

00:17:22.329 --> 00:17:24.329
point. And I just thinking through my career,

00:17:24.470 --> 00:17:25.750
I just feel like this is something that women

00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:27.910
struggle with so much where it's either it's

00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:30.410
too nice and you're doing the softening or you

00:17:30.410 --> 00:17:32.809
come, you're coming in hot, right? Like all the

00:17:32.809 --> 00:17:34.210
time you're coming in hot and then you get that

00:17:34.210 --> 00:17:36.890
reputation for being the B word or being aggressive

00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:39.210
or whatever it is. And so it's like, how do you,

00:17:39.210 --> 00:17:40.829
how do you balance that? Like, how do you find

00:17:40.829 --> 00:17:43.109
that middle ground where you're being nice? You're

00:17:43.109 --> 00:17:45.029
saying what you mean, but you're saying it in

00:17:45.029 --> 00:17:49.609
a nice way. There's a tiny, tiny adjustment that

00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:52.930
we can make that will change everything. And

00:17:52.930 --> 00:17:54.930
it's the difference between saying, you need

00:17:54.930 --> 00:17:57.769
to be here on time. which comes across as very

00:17:57.769 --> 00:18:00.230
aggressive. And sometimes men get away with that,

00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:02.109
but women definitely not. When you say, you need

00:18:02.109 --> 00:18:04.210
to do this, that's gonna be, like you say, the

00:18:04.210 --> 00:18:06.670
total B word if we come across like that. And

00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:08.930
so flipping that, and I hate to say this, this

00:18:08.930 --> 00:18:11.690
is really like assertiveness 101, but it's like

00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:14.029
flipping that I need you to be here on time versus

00:18:14.029 --> 00:18:16.529
you need to be here on time. I need to be here

00:18:16.529 --> 00:18:20.210
or you always show up late or I need you to not

00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:22.789
be late. So taking the responsibility by saying

00:18:22.789 --> 00:18:25.930
I need or we would prefer that you do this. versus

00:18:25.930 --> 00:18:28.230
you never do this or you always do something

00:18:28.230 --> 00:18:31.109
else. So it's the we and the I wording versus

00:18:31.109 --> 00:18:33.430
the you and again, the blaming finger pointing,

00:18:33.509 --> 00:18:35.930
the proverbial finger pointing wording. I think

00:18:35.930 --> 00:18:38.769
that allows us to say things in a nice way, but

00:18:38.769 --> 00:18:44.559
we're still firm and fair about it. but still

00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.900
in a nice way. No, that's such a great point.

00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.740
When you use you, it better be like, oh, you're

00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:53.920
awesome or something very positive. You can say

00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.259
you're, if you're going to give a compliment,

00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:57.420
you're amazing. You're a great teammate, whatever

00:18:57.420 --> 00:18:59.740
it is, but you say you're and it's not positive.

00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:02.339
It literally just is going to put people back

00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.710
like, oh, why is she attacking me? Well, you

00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:07.609
know, it's interesting that you talk about the

00:19:07.609 --> 00:19:09.789
you're awesome. I love that because, yeah, we

00:19:09.789 --> 00:19:12.269
can say that in a positive way. But if we say,

00:19:12.269 --> 00:19:14.970
you know, in a negative way like you're a slacker,

00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:18.250
that's probably not a good thing to say. Yeah.

00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:21.990
Only accuse them of being great. Yes, exactly.

00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:24.450
You know, I have to say, you know, when I talk

00:19:24.450 --> 00:19:26.569
about phrases and I talk about giving people

00:19:26.569 --> 00:19:29.130
the benefit of the doubt and I say, oh, you may

00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:32.450
not be aware or perhaps you didn't realize, you

00:19:32.450 --> 00:19:34.539
know, this is what we need. Sometimes people

00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:36.160
say, well, Serena, I thought you said you can't

00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:40.099
say you. But when it's in a description, perhaps

00:19:40.099 --> 00:19:42.720
you're not aware or maybe you didn't know, that's

00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.420
very different than saying you clearly are clueless.

00:19:45.819 --> 00:19:48.200
So it's not a blaming kind of mode. It's just

00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:53.359
a describing a situation. That's a great point.

00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:55.660
That makes total sense. So the word you itself

00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.200
is not forbidden. It's just when you use it in

00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:00.599
a blaming mode. Right. And I love the fact that

00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:02.200
you point out that, you know, you're awesome.

00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:04.839
We can see you all day long. Say that all day.

00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:09.259
Okay. So the other half of communication is listening.

00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:12.380
So how do we be better listeners? How do we listen

00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:14.619
to what's said without getting defensive and

00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:16.160
looking for the truth? What are your, what are

00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.759
top listening mistakes and what do we do to fix

00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.710
them? Yeah. Well, I'm sure that everyone has

00:20:22.710 --> 00:20:26.049
heard the Stephen Covey wisdom about listening

00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:30.470
to understand. And a lot of times we just listen

00:20:30.470 --> 00:20:33.670
to wait to respond. And obviously we don't want

00:20:33.670 --> 00:20:36.029
to do that. But I think the best advice I've

00:20:36.029 --> 00:20:37.930
ever received, one of my first mentors, I was

00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:39.769
a grad student many years ago, and one of my

00:20:39.769 --> 00:20:42.049
first mentors said, you know, Serita, when you

00:20:42.049 --> 00:20:45.089
get some negative things, you know, ask for more.

00:20:45.349 --> 00:20:47.529
And I say that because we can listen all day

00:20:47.529 --> 00:20:49.470
long when it's positive, but the minute someone

00:20:49.470 --> 00:20:51.410
says something we don't want to hear, suddenly

00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:53.390
our listening skills go out the window and we're

00:20:53.390 --> 00:20:55.970
just thinking, how can I defend myself here?

00:20:56.630 --> 00:20:58.230
But she said, you know, when you get some negative

00:20:58.230 --> 00:21:01.730
feedback, ask for more. And I thought that was

00:21:01.730 --> 00:21:05.170
great feedback because sometimes we'll hear something,

00:21:05.390 --> 00:21:06.950
especially if we're in a leadership role and

00:21:06.950 --> 00:21:09.470
we hear something from an employee or staff member

00:21:09.470 --> 00:21:12.170
who, or even a customer who may say, well, I

00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:14.390
don't like this and they're complaining. Our

00:21:14.390 --> 00:21:18.269
first instinct is to explain and defend. And

00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:20.329
instead of doing that, just saying, you know,

00:21:20.369 --> 00:21:23.450
tell me more, or can you elaborate, or can you

00:21:23.450 --> 00:21:26.190
give me some examples? And that's a great way

00:21:26.190 --> 00:21:29.730
to listen even in the face of some negative feedback.

00:21:29.789 --> 00:21:31.730
Because I think that's when listening is hard,

00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:34.470
when someone is sharing something that we don't

00:21:34.470 --> 00:21:36.049
like here. Totally. This is probably something

00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:37.410
that I've had to work on through the years. I'm

00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:40.349
not claiming I'm amazing at it, but it's so easy

00:21:40.349 --> 00:21:42.359
if someone's giving you feedback. maybe you don't

00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:43.500
agree with, or maybe you're not even listening.

00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:45.559
You don't want to be curious. You just want to

00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:47.420
defend, right? So I could think of countless

00:21:47.420 --> 00:21:49.640
times where I went in defense mode and I probably

00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:51.940
escalated it and made it worse because I got

00:21:51.940 --> 00:21:54.160
defensive and then they kind of, nobody's listening,

00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:56.799
everyone's talking and it's just not productive.

00:21:57.339 --> 00:21:59.559
So it's like being curious then kind of opens

00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:01.799
that and gets you further into the conversation.

00:22:01.819 --> 00:22:03.420
Exactly. I love that, being curious. That's a

00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:05.759
great way to put it, being curious. Yeah, because

00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:07.640
it's real easy to get defensive, at least for

00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.630
me. So if I'm getting feedback, right, that I

00:22:11.630 --> 00:22:13.289
don't agree with, what are some of those, how

00:22:13.289 --> 00:22:15.789
do I ask questions? How do I be curious without

00:22:15.789 --> 00:22:17.970
also sounding like, cause again, I got a balance

00:22:17.970 --> 00:22:19.809
being snarky. You can tell there's a theme here

00:22:19.809 --> 00:22:23.190
where that can happen. So how do I, how do I

00:22:23.190 --> 00:22:27.289
ask you for further info? Yeah. So my favorite

00:22:27.289 --> 00:22:29.589
phrase, well, my favorite go -to phrase is how

00:22:29.589 --> 00:22:32.069
do you mean, you know, when someone will say

00:22:32.069 --> 00:22:35.849
something. So for example, I love telling the

00:22:35.849 --> 00:22:37.789
story about how I went to a professional development

00:22:37.789 --> 00:22:40.569
seminar when I worked at the university for supervisors.

00:22:40.650 --> 00:22:42.369
And they said, you know, go back and ask your

00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:44.289
employees in your one -on -one meetings for their

00:22:44.289 --> 00:22:46.630
input. I thought, that sounds like a great idea.

00:22:47.069 --> 00:22:49.029
So I go back and in my first one -on -one meeting,

00:22:49.210 --> 00:22:50.809
I said, well, what do you think we can do to

00:22:50.809 --> 00:22:53.250
improve the department? And he said, you can

00:22:53.250 --> 00:22:56.410
be a better supervisor. And I literally was ready

00:22:56.410 --> 00:22:59.329
to defend myself. And instead I said, how do

00:22:59.329 --> 00:23:02.529
you mean? and he gave me some great feedback.

00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:06.710
I do send, tell me more, can you elaborate? Can

00:23:06.710 --> 00:23:09.549
you be more specific? Can you give me some examples?

00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:12.289
But you know what's gonna happen? The tone and

00:23:12.289 --> 00:23:15.170
how we say it in our facial expression is gonna

00:23:15.170 --> 00:23:18.029
be a make or break because we can say, well,

00:23:18.549 --> 00:23:22.809
can you elaborate? We're really challenging them

00:23:22.809 --> 00:23:24.710
and really we don't want it to come off as a

00:23:24.710 --> 00:23:26.769
challenge, but more as you say, a curiosity.

00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.180
Right. Yeah. Cause that, give me some examples

00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:31.599
that can come across real hot for sure. Give

00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.779
me some examples. When did I suck? Like, give

00:23:34.779 --> 00:23:37.920
me some examples. How do you mean? I like that.

00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:39.140
I have not used that, but I'm going to put that

00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:40.960
on my list. That's a good, I feel like I can

00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:43.160
use that with my teenage daughters too. Right?

00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:45.680
Like they're good with some kind of quick comeback.

00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:48.779
My daughter's grown now, but when she was a teenager,

00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.680
her favorite thing was whatever. And I would

00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.779
call her out. I would say, um, you know, you

00:23:55.779 --> 00:23:59.089
say whatever. But what does that mean? Or say

00:23:59.089 --> 00:24:00.490
whatever, but I'm not sure what do you mean by

00:24:00.490 --> 00:24:03.109
that? Like in other words, it forced her to have

00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:06.529
to explain in a different way and not just get

00:24:06.529 --> 00:24:09.430
away with saying whatever. And now I could have

00:24:09.430 --> 00:24:11.410
guessed 10 different things I was probably that

00:24:11.410 --> 00:24:14.789
she meant, but to call her out on it forced her

00:24:14.789 --> 00:24:17.480
to say it in a different way rather than. getting

00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.880
away with being snarky. Sure. That's a great

00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:21.779
left lesson because that can become a bad habit

00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:24.980
of just shutting down the conversation and moving

00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:27.240
on versus like, okay, let's push them to engage

00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.099
and maybe they're, maybe they're right. Like

00:24:29.099 --> 00:24:32.180
maybe they have a good point. So make them communicate

00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:33.940
it and explain it. I love that. That's a good

00:24:33.940 --> 00:24:37.099
challenge. I just get the like eye roll and the,

00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:41.170
you know, turn away. Mm -hmm. You know, I always

00:24:41.170 --> 00:24:43.650
talk about a phrase I affectionately call the

00:24:43.650 --> 00:24:46.109
twins, and it's a two -part phrase. It's, I noticed

00:24:46.109 --> 00:24:49.369
and I'm wondering. And I feel like that's a great

00:24:49.369 --> 00:24:51.730
phrase for calling people out. You know, I noticed

00:24:51.730 --> 00:24:53.690
you rolled your eyes, and I'm wondering what's

00:24:53.690 --> 00:24:57.849
going on. Or I noticed you went, and I'm wondering...

00:24:57.500 --> 00:25:00.819
what that means. And I've used that in meetings

00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:03.900
and someone kind of has a negative response or

00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:06.799
an attitude about something that's been said

00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.599
in the meeting. I might say, you know, I noticed

00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.200
that you sighed when we mentioned that project.

00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.680
I'm wondering what's going on. You're not accusing

00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.140
them. So there's no reason to get defensive.

00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.519
And maybe they will a little bit if they've totally

00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.000
messed something up or forgot to do something,

00:25:19.059 --> 00:25:21.299
but you're just kind of keeping it open and trying

00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:23.630
to understand. Oh, that's so good. Uh, let's

00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:26.170
talk a little bit about the high tech times.

00:25:26.250 --> 00:25:28.910
This was in one of your books. So how do we handle

00:25:28.910 --> 00:25:31.730
communication when it comes to emails or Slack

00:25:31.730 --> 00:25:34.190
or teams and, and what to do, especially emails,

00:25:34.190 --> 00:25:36.450
right? Because that can be very challenging to

00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:38.089
communicate sometimes. So what's your approach

00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:40.589
for that? Okay. You're, you're setting me up

00:25:40.589 --> 00:25:43.309
Betsy for doing a little ditty that I love to

00:25:43.309 --> 00:25:46.630
do, uh, which I think is going to summarize my

00:25:46.630 --> 00:25:50.589
whole two cents worth. on high tech, but here

00:25:50.589 --> 00:25:54.049
we go. L -O -L -T -M -I -O -N -G, I can't understand

00:25:54.049 --> 00:25:56.430
what you're saying to me. The magic word is still

00:25:56.430 --> 00:26:00.109
thank you and please, even if you text or email

00:26:00.109 --> 00:26:04.809
with ease. Bold and all caps are email attitude,

00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:07.589
and texting while we're talking is just rude.

00:26:07.890 --> 00:26:10.029
You can't say something nice, what do you say?

00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:12.990
Whatever it is, don't post it on Facebook today.

00:26:13.869 --> 00:26:17.990
That's my whole two cents worth in 30 seconds.

00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.720
I love that. That's so good. Okay. Well, I think

00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:23.779
that answered all the questions. Yeah, I think

00:26:23.779 --> 00:26:26.980
that answers all the questions in the shortest

00:26:26.980 --> 00:26:29.960
possible time. But seriously though, I do laugh

00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.440
because I have colleagues who will say, yeah,

00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.140
I had a conversation with some people that I

00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:37.779
was going to be meeting with, or some people

00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:39.779
I was going to be speaking to. And then I get

00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:42.019
there on site and they go, oh, you're very warm

00:26:42.019 --> 00:26:44.400
and friendly, but you're very nice, or you're

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.400
actually pleasant. What in the world were they

00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.539
thinking about me when we were emailing? Because

00:26:50.539 --> 00:26:53.119
the warm and fuzziness gets lost in the emails.

00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.039
And so that's where I always say please and thank

00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.359
you. Because if you say to someone, hey, please

00:26:58.359 --> 00:26:59.859
let me know if you're going to need anything

00:26:59.859 --> 00:27:02.579
else, or thank you so much for your time, I always

00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.089
say we should do a kindness check. in our emails

00:27:06.089 --> 00:27:08.430
and a kindness check is looking to see is there

00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:11.789
a please or a thank you somewhere in the email

00:27:11.789 --> 00:27:14.009
because it's a great way to soften it and make

00:27:14.009 --> 00:27:18.170
it more approachable. So not so cold and sterile.

00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:20.410
Do you ever think it's appropriate to have a

00:27:20.410 --> 00:27:24.079
tough conversation via email? I personally don't

00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.740
prefer that. And of course, now we're all working

00:27:26.740 --> 00:27:29.859
remotely and people are not always in the same

00:27:29.859 --> 00:27:32.640
office. But I always feel like at least a phone

00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.279
conversation and maybe using the email to set

00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.700
it up and say, hey, I have some things I'd love

00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:40.940
to chat with you about and let's schedule a time.

00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:44.420
This kind of format via Zoom, now we have this

00:27:44.420 --> 00:27:47.720
option. In earlier years, a phone call was always

00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:51.460
my recommendation, but now we can even do this.

00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:54.960
But I think it's good to see the nuances. And

00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.400
in a regular email, that's totally missed. Even

00:27:57.400 --> 00:27:59.940
the please and thank you will not save you as

00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.859
far as a different conversation. Agreed. And

00:28:02.859 --> 00:28:04.680
it's funny, too, because you're right, you compare

00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.940
email to the phone. And yeah, if it's anything

00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:09.380
other than informational or something that's

00:28:09.380 --> 00:28:11.140
friendly, then probably shouldn't be email. But

00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:12.819
then I even think about when I've had a difficult

00:28:12.819 --> 00:28:16.299
conversation, phone versus. teams or something

00:28:16.299 --> 00:28:19.000
with video, it's real easy to hide behind a phone.

00:28:19.059 --> 00:28:21.299
I mean, it's not easy, it's easier. But then

00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:23.539
when you have to see someone, I think there's

00:28:23.539 --> 00:28:25.420
a lot of benefit to that because then they can

00:28:25.420 --> 00:28:28.119
see your impressions, they can see your face,

00:28:28.220 --> 00:28:29.960
you can see theirs, you can see how they're reacting.

00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:34.019
can help. Some people get really uncomfortable

00:28:34.019 --> 00:28:35.700
with that, and I understand that. But I think

00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:37.700
that's kind of that challenge of if it's really

00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:39.700
difficult, then you probably should be looking

00:28:39.700 --> 00:28:41.720
them in the eye as much as you can. Exactly.

00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.200
And you know, some people will argue and say,

00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:46.740
well, you know, I like email because then I can

00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:49.720
document everything. But now I'm going to have

00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.500
to hark back to the dark ages before the Internet.

00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:56.759
I mean, I remember sending memos when I was I

00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:58.880
was a dean of students for a short time in my

00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.339
other life, one of my many jobs. my final job

00:29:01.339 --> 00:29:03.319
before I left higher ed. And as a dean of students,

00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:05.599
I often had to go to discipline cases, people

00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:07.880
who had done things that were not against the

00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.740
rules. And that was one of those things where,

00:29:11.740 --> 00:29:13.700
you know, we'd have the conversation, but I was

00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:16.680
forever sending, following up our memo, following

00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.180
up our conversation. And I think email can be

00:29:19.180 --> 00:29:21.160
used that way. You know, we can have a Teams

00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.779
meeting or you have something like this where

00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:26.500
you're face to face, but then sending the email

00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:28.680
to say, you know, just to follow up, here's the

00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.200
things that we agreed upon and use the email

00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.519
as the old school memo just to follow up our

00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:37.730
conversation format. No, I'm a big fan of that.

00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:40.069
I've done that many times because to your point,

00:29:40.230 --> 00:29:43.750
it doesn't have to be recapping every piece of

00:29:43.750 --> 00:29:45.430
the conversation you had, but it's like that

00:29:45.430 --> 00:29:47.450
this is what we agreed upon. This is the next

00:29:47.450 --> 00:29:49.589
steps because sometimes you have a great conversation

00:29:49.589 --> 00:29:51.569
and maybe it was productive and then you walk

00:29:51.569 --> 00:29:53.710
away and you're both not on the same page. So

00:29:53.710 --> 00:29:55.630
just sort of documenting like this is what we

00:29:55.630 --> 00:29:56.970
agreed to. This is what you're going to do. So

00:29:56.970 --> 00:29:59.170
I'm going to do, here's the timeline. Then there

00:29:59.170 --> 00:30:02.109
helps to eliminate the miscommunication. So I'm

00:30:02.109 --> 00:30:04.250
a big fan of yes, have the conversation in person

00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:07.859
and it doesn't have to be an HR style, documented

00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:10.400
email, but at least ensuring that you're on the

00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:12.539
same page when you walk away. And then it is.

00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:16.740
Yes, yes, exactly. And I think even in my the

00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:19.799
last 20 some years or so as a speaker, I'm in

00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.059
a lot of conversations with people who are in

00:30:22.059 --> 00:30:25.019
different geographic location. And I find myself

00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.579
using email, even when it's not a difficult conversation.

00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:29.819
conversation saying, you know, as we agreed,

00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:32.259
you know, we'll meet up here, you know, at this

00:30:32.259 --> 00:30:34.619
point, we'll go do the book signing or we'll

00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.599
go here. And so I'm just confirming the details

00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:39.539
just to make sure that there's no confusion,

00:30:39.619 --> 00:30:42.359
even when it's not a difficult. Absolutely. Now

00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.079
that's huge. I need to see things in writing.

00:30:45.500 --> 00:30:47.559
So give me the stuff in writing because I might

00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:50.640
just based out on the conversation part. So exactly.

00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.880
Memory laps if I don't have it written down somewhere.

00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:56.460
Absolutely. I need to write down everything in

00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:58.950
my handwriting. I'm reminded earlier today that

00:30:58.950 --> 00:31:01.069
it's atrocious. So I need somebody to type it

00:31:01.069 --> 00:31:03.549
or I need to type it. So we're on the same page

00:31:03.549 --> 00:31:05.750
and it's legible. Well, this is awesome. And

00:31:05.750 --> 00:31:07.789
we can probably talk about this all day. So any

00:31:07.789 --> 00:31:10.990
final takeaways for our listeners to be able

00:31:10.990 --> 00:31:12.789
to deliver those tough messages and have the

00:31:12.789 --> 00:31:14.630
uncomfortable conversations, but how do you be

00:31:14.630 --> 00:31:17.769
nice and mean what you say? Yeah, I think I would

00:31:17.769 --> 00:31:21.230
just close with what we started out with, which

00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:24.150
is the motto of say what you mean, mean what

00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:26.819
you say, but it doesn't have to be mean. that

00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:29.240
there is a lot of, I think a lot of latitude

00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.700
in between saying nothing and being ugly. So

00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:36.599
just remembering that we can still say things

00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:39.819
and do that in a positive way. That's great.

00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.900
And I love your 10 power phrases. We'll definitely

00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:44.119
share that when this episode goes out. Because

00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:45.920
it's nice to see that and kind of just look at

00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:47.220
it every once in a while and be like, oh, hey,

00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:49.420
I'm struggling. What do I need to do here? So

00:31:49.420 --> 00:31:51.680
that's awesome. So Sarita, if people want to

00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.259
follow you, learn more about you, find your books,

00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:56.279
where can they connect with you? Yeah. Well,

00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.160
Amazon is the best bet. And I'm excited because

00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.839
I've had a chance to narrate both my books. And

00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:05.759
they're both on Audible. So it's paperback, Kindle,

00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.910
and Audible. So whatever format you prefer. It's

00:32:08.910 --> 00:32:11.589
all three of those. And then of course, seretamaven

00:32:11.589 --> 00:32:15.509
.com is my website. And you can certainly connect

00:32:15.509 --> 00:32:16.990
with me there. And one of the things I should

00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:19.069
also mention is on the homepage of my website,

00:32:19.490 --> 00:32:21.609
you can sign up to get my monthly, what do you

00:32:21.609 --> 00:32:24.490
say? Communique. And so once a month I send out

00:32:24.490 --> 00:32:27.200
a communication tip. And that's a great way to

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.099
stay connected as well. And a great way to be

00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:30.819
reminded of how to be a better communicator.

00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:33.140
I will be signing up for that today, for sure.

00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:35.640
That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for being

00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.059
here. This has been super helpful. And thanks

00:32:38.059 --> 00:32:39.700
for getting on and lifting with us. Thank you

00:32:39.700 --> 00:32:42.059
to Sarita for sharing her expertise with us.

00:32:42.180 --> 00:32:44.259
Whether it's communicating in the office or in

00:32:44.259 --> 00:32:46.180
your home, it's important to take a step back

00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:49.420
and evaluate how we are speaking. If your messages

00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:51.619
don't seem to be received by the way you're intending,

00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.180
then it's worth a deeper dive into your style,

00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:57.779
your words, your choices and your delivery. If

00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:59.440
this helped, share it with a woman leader who's

00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.880
navigating a hard conversation today. Subscribe,

00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:04.420
leave a quick review, and grab more resources

00:33:04.420 --> 00:33:08.059
at LoudAndLifted .com. Until next time, stay

00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:10.819
loud, in a nice way, and keep lifting.