Real Talk from Heart Centered Leadership with Lyndsay Dowd

00:01.62
Betsy Hamm
Welcome to Loud and Lifted. Lindsay, thank you so much for being here.

00:06.29
Lyndsay Dowd
Oh, it is my honor. I am so happy you're doing this show. This is so exciting. Thanks for having me.

00:11.27
Betsy Hamm
say that I have another reason to have a conversation with you.

00:14.19
Lyndsay Dowd
Sure.

00:14.15
Betsy Hamm
the first one i was so good. So let's give the listeners a little bit of background of just tell us, you know, your journey and what you're up to now.

00:21.06
Lyndsay Dowd
warren Sure. Yeah, I spent a solid 25 years in corporate America and you know did all the things that you were expected to do, got the awards, got the accolades, climbed the ranks, and 23 of those years were at IBM.

00:35.63
Lyndsay Dowd
And I came from a long, big blue legacy of my family put in 105 years there. So we understood that.

00:41.02
Betsy Hamm
Oh my

00:41.51
Lyndsay Dowd
We understood that culture. We understood security and and all the things that come with corporate America. And at the end of 23 years, I was ready for a change. I was the last one standing from my family.

00:53.91
Lyndsay Dowd
And another company sought me out and said, come lead a sales team for us. And I said, OK. So packed up my big blue legacy and off I went. And um every any reasonable executive knows it takes a little bit for a new executive to find the bathroom.

01:09.59
Lyndsay Dowd
And um six months is a reasonable opportunity to do that. And that's not what they had in mind. And so at six months, they fired me.

01:17.82
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh.

01:18.04
Lyndsay Dowd
And I was devastated, totally gutted. um Not the person that gets fired. I'm the person that like follows the rules, creates the rules, creates the space, creates the culture. So it was really hard for me to get my head around that.

01:33.41
Lyndsay Dowd
And for a month, I couldn't talk about it. um And i at the end of that month, I asked myself three questions. What am I really good at? What do i love to do? and how can I help people the most?

01:44.43
Lyndsay Dowd
And I knew how to build modern leaders and I knew how to create irresistible culture that drives results. And so I started my company Heartbeat for Hire, which gave everyone in my family a heart attack because they don't know entrepreneurs. they don't They think that's just a recipe for failure.

02:00.22
Lyndsay Dowd
And um I wrote my first book. I wrote my second book. I started a podcast. I got some awards. And I coach C-suites and individual leaders on all of those things.

02:10.59
Lyndsay Dowd
I teach executive out LinkedIn workshops. I keynote. And yeah, that's kind of what I'm up to.

02:17.01
Betsy Hamm
That's amazing.

02:17.18
Lyndsay Dowd
So yeah.

02:17.49
Betsy Hamm
I love it. And I love the heartbeat for hire. Like that just has heart, which is sometimes hard to find in leadership, right?

02:20.04
Lyndsay Dowd
Thanks. Yeah, that was the point. And you know what, it was a direct response to the leader who had terribly low EQ who fired me.

02:31.92
Lyndsay Dowd
She um even said to me, she said, you have really strong EQ. i don't. And I said, Oh, I agree. She did not. Hers was terrible.

02:42.41
Lyndsay Dowd
And everyone knew it. And what was really interesting was the recruiter that brought me in said to me after the fact, when she found out that I wasn't there anymore, she said, if you came in as her peer, she would have learned a lot from you.

02:55.61
Lyndsay Dowd
But you were an absolute threat to the way that she leads. And she wanted me to be a micromanager. That's what she knew. That's what she understood. And that is something I would never be.

03:05.57
Betsy Hamm
And it's hard because sometimes you can have leaders who realize they they have have balance, right? Like you don't want to hire somebody exactly like You want somebody who can bring different strengths.

03:12.28
Lyndsay Dowd
No.

03:13.83
Betsy Hamm
So it's unfortunate she didn't realize that you had different strengths.

03:14.45
Lyndsay Dowd
you

03:17.32
Lyndsay Dowd
Hey, it was a win for me because it was the shove out of the nest that I needed.

03:20.76
Betsy Hamm
True.

03:20.84
Lyndsay Dowd
And it put me on the path to figure out this whole chapter, which, you know, I'm 53 years old. So three years ago when I started all this, I mean, i didn't

03:30.94
Betsy Hamm
Which is crazy. Like at 50, starting a whole not just job, your own business.

03:35.81
Lyndsay Dowd
The whole thing. mean, wrote a couple of, never thought I'd be an author. never thought I'd host a podcast. Like this is, it's amazing. So, you know, it's never too late.

03:44.56
Betsy Hamm
That's so awesome. Funny how things work out, right? Like sometimes like something happens that you think is so bad and so negative, and then ah turns around and becomes something that's the most amazing thing that's ever happened to you.

03:47.90
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

03:51.08
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

03:55.30
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah. Those are the best stories. so

03:56.79
Betsy Hamm
I love that.

03:57.54
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

03:57.63
Betsy Hamm
So through your career and obviously even coaching others, um you've probably seen and learned a lot.

04:01.30
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

04:03.01
Betsy Hamm
And, you know, we talk about the same things over and over time, what that we need to focus on.

04:03.34
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

04:06.97
Betsy Hamm
But what have you seen from your either personal perspective or just working with other leaders that nobody tells you to be prepared for? Besides just getting fired after six months.

04:15.07
Lyndsay Dowd
yeah Yeah.

04:16.54
Betsy Hamm
Like, you know, that's...

04:17.84
Lyndsay Dowd
You know, the the big thing I tell people all the time is there's no such thing as job security. There's only career security. And, you know, I was lucky. I was never laid off from IBM. I did have to lay people off.

04:29.81
Lyndsay Dowd
um But that's not the world we live in anymore. People don't stay at companies for 20 years. And if they do, it's a rarity.

04:35.60
Betsy Hamm
Right. Mm-hmm.

04:36.89
Lyndsay Dowd
So you have to build that career security for yourself and you have to build your own brand. And your brand is not your title. Your brand is not your company that you work for.

04:45.20
Betsy Hamm
right

04:47.67
Lyndsay Dowd
Your brand is what you innately are good at, what you're known for, what people say about you when you're not in the room. And that's the thing that I think a lot of people in corporate really don't understand And the best tool for that is LinkedIn.

05:03.88
Lyndsay Dowd
So, you know, everybody needs to be thinking about, you know, what is it? What are my unique gifts? What's my unique value prop that I deliver to the world outside of this role?

05:15.77
Lyndsay Dowd
You could have done the most amazing things. But newsflash, guys, if someone comes in with a different idea of how the company should go, your role could be eliminated tomorrow.

05:26.69
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely.

05:27.12
Lyndsay Dowd
So have that ready to rock. And then you're going to be in a much better position should you find yourself flat footed.

05:34.96
Betsy Hamm
You know, I can totally to that. I feel like you're talking to me. You know, going from a CEO, I had a lot of notoriety being a woman CEO in a very male-dominated field.

05:44.01
Lyndsay Dowd
That's

05:45.17
Betsy Hamm
And so when that change in gender is like, oh, shit, like, no one's going to care about me. I'm not going to have that presence.

05:51.13
Lyndsay Dowd
right.

05:51.09
Betsy Hamm
And i did. I had to sort of pivot and, and

05:53.95
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

05:54.32
Betsy Hamm
I take a more active role in LinkedIn and start doing things that got me out there. And I did realize it was actually about me. Like people do care about me professionally, personally, whatever you want call it.

06:01.04
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

06:04.61
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

06:05.63
Betsy Hamm
The company almost gets you there, right? That got me the exposure. i wouldn't have taken that role. I wouldn't have had the exposure that I did, but I'm still here.

06:14.75
Lyndsay Dowd
Okay.

06:15.24
Betsy Hamm
So...

06:16.30
Lyndsay Dowd
Well, I think it's really easy for people to minimize their success. You know, was just working with a client yesterday on a LinkedIn workshop and she's really uncomfortable talking about the stuff that she's done, that she's been recognized for. And I said, I'm going to stop you right there, Olivia. The thing you need to remember is you getting recognition, whether it's 100% club or president's club or, some award, that's Yeah.

06:40.28
Lyndsay Dowd
you know some a war fact

06:43.72
Betsy Hamm
Right.

06:44.19
Lyndsay Dowd
It's not a feeling. And you can talk about facts. And if I say I'm a two-time author and a podcast host, I'm not bragging. Those are facts.

06:52.27
Betsy Hamm
Right. It's true.

06:53.64
Lyndsay Dowd
So everyone needs to get a little more comfortable with saying, no, I did this. It's mine.

06:59.06
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

06:59.14
Lyndsay Dowd
And nothing that happens to me will ever take that away.

07:02.12
Betsy Hamm
Oh, I love that. And it goes back to, and we're having an upcoming episode about this too, but one of my favorite topics is pie and how your performance matters, right?

07:08.11
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

07:09.98
Betsy Hamm
But then there's also the image and the exposure and that just reinforces that, that your image is your brand and you have to be out there promoting yourself, whether it's just because you want a job, right?

07:10.13
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

07:13.74
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah, it is.

07:18.37
Lyndsay Dowd
Well, what are you known for, right? Like if you're going to sit and sit and lurk on LinkedIn, and we know there's a lot of lurkers, we love our lurkers, but if you're going to lurk and if you're going to, you know, be inspired by stuff, but never say anything, you know, the way you grow on that platform is not with creating content.

07:36.91
Lyndsay Dowd
it's showing up in the comments. And if something interests you, say something. First of all, the person who created is going to appreciate the heck out of it.

07:42.44
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yep.

07:45.79
Lyndsay Dowd
But it's also all their network is going to see what you have to say. And if you say something real smart, and if you're listening to this show, you're never going to say great post because that sucks.

07:56.72
Lyndsay Dowd
um you're You're going to say something intelligent that reflects well on you. And that is how you grow. That is how you start your brand. It's also how you hone what you're really interested in.

08:07.85
Betsy Hamm
I love that.

08:08.19
Lyndsay Dowd
Hmm.

08:08.41
Betsy Hamm
That's so true.

08:09.29
Lyndsay Dowd
yeah

08:09.47
Betsy Hamm
What are some of those other truths? That's a great one. That's a huge one that we could talk about for the entire episode, but I know you have other ones.

08:11.90
Lyndsay Dowd
a

08:15.08
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah, the other one that I love this, um and we did this a lot at IBM, but if you're working for a company, um ask to have informational interviews outside of your reporting chain.

08:27.56
Lyndsay Dowd
And the reason you do this is because you're getting exposure to other parts of the business, but they're also getting exposure to you. And when they have an open role, perhaps your name rises to the top of that list.

08:40.69
Lyndsay Dowd
I got five different first of a kind roles at IBM from just that. And people would make an intro and they'd be like, hey, Lenz, you need to go and talk to this executive over there. She, I think, would really like you. And, you know, you two need to know each other.

08:54.54
Lyndsay Dowd
Sure. Cool. Let's go. So I go, I get to Peacock. I get to say, I've done these things. I've done all this good stuff. And they go, no way. That's amazing. Actually, I'm hiring and I want you for this role.

09:06.00
Lyndsay Dowd
And if the timing is right and the stars align, off you go. So it's a great way of keeping your talent in house. You have to have secure leaders at the top that are not threatened by this.

09:17.71
Lyndsay Dowd
And anyone that's threatened by this I'm going to tell you, you need to stop and re-examine what you're doing in leadership because I came from the philosophy of, I only wanted people on my team who wanted to be there.

09:29.66
Lyndsay Dowd
And if someone said, Hey, Lenz, I want to go and interview for this job, even if I didn't think they were ready, I supported them because I only wanted the people that really wanted to be there and wanted to rock with me on my team.

09:42.70
Lyndsay Dowd
So Stop that whole, like, if I lose her, my team's not going to perform. You have to say, no, I support you. They will remember that loyalty, but think about it. If you begrudge her that opportunity, what kind of performance is she going to have sticking around on your team?

09:59.05
Betsy Hamm
So true.

09:59.75
Lyndsay Dowd
Not good.

10:00.54
Betsy Hamm
No.

10:00.75
Lyndsay Dowd
So think about those informational interviews. Those are huge. um And it's just such a great way to broaden your experience. and And, you know, my career path was anything but straight. I zigged, I zagged, I went all over the place and I did really weird, unexpected things, but I loved it. And I learned so much.

10:19.47
Lyndsay Dowd
um that's and ah That's a really great way to do it. And I'll tell you, I have a friend, Mark Peters, he's the CEO of Butterball. um He actually built, this is so cool, he built this consortium in Michigan of companies. They're they're medium to small companies and they they they don't have a big enough company to do what I'm describing.

10:39.81
Lyndsay Dowd
So they created a consortium of companies to allow that to happen countries. all of the five companies.

10:45.85
Betsy Hamm
Oh, wow. Yep.

10:46.48
Lyndsay Dowd
So imagine, you know, hey guys, you know, I'm hiring for a social media marketer. Does anybody have anyone ready to make a move at their company? Yeah, i do. Let me make an intro.

10:58.07
Lyndsay Dowd
So it's fostering this really healthy culture across a bunch of different companies.

11:00.96
Betsy Hamm
no

11:02.39
Lyndsay Dowd
And I think that's so smart.

11:04.03
Betsy Hamm
That's very smart.

11:05.06
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

11:05.03
Betsy Hamm
and And to your point, it keeps people there. What do you suggest for somebody they're at a company that they don't have those opportunities or avenues?

11:07.62
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

11:12.35
Betsy Hamm
Like, do you go outside the company? Like, how do you handle that if you don't have that internally?

11:13.97
Lyndsay Dowd
yeah

11:16.53
Lyndsay Dowd
I think it's really healthy to surround yourself with people who are doing the things you wanna do. And you know whether that's getting in community, like you and I have talked about, you know being a member of the Outlier Project, or um being on LinkedIn and seeing you know somebody makes a post that inspires you in some way, reaching out to them and saying, I really admired that post. It really spoke to me.

11:39.71
Lyndsay Dowd
Could you ever spare 15 minutes for a coffee chat? When you talk to these people who are doing the things that you want to do, it makes you better. It helps you avoid some of the mistakes and the pitfalls, which invariably we all make.

11:53.30
Betsy Hamm
Right.

11:53.80
Lyndsay Dowd
But you're cultivating a network. And I made a really huge mistake at IBM. I thought that was my network. I thought my business partners, my clients, and the people that I worked with was my network.

12:05.66
Lyndsay Dowd
And it wasn't until I left that I went, oh, crap, now what?

12:09.46
Betsy Hamm
right

12:10.80
Lyndsay Dowd
And all those people that were reaching out to me over the years, I was like, I don't know you. Nope, nope. And it was so dumb. ah My network would be so much bigger if I didn't do that. But this is a a really warm place to be connected to people who are doing incredible things.

12:29.24
Lyndsay Dowd
And you would be surprised how many people would be open to doing a coffee chat and just getting to know you. Absolutely.

12:35.43
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. I have experienced that in my career, just reaching out to people I didn't know. Actually, that's how we met.

12:40.01
Lyndsay Dowd
Yes, exactly.

12:40.55
Betsy Hamm
It's on LinkedIn. But you know even I've said before, when I took my role as CEO, I started reaching out to other CEOs in the industry and just trying.

12:47.93
Lyndsay Dowd
Yes.

12:48.91
Betsy Hamm
And people are willing to share.

12:50.79
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

12:50.83
Betsy Hamm
And hey, 10, 15 minutes. And I make sure I return the favor. I just, I talked to somebody the other week who never met.

12:54.65
Lyndsay Dowd
Of course.

12:57.05
Betsy Hamm
He reached out to me. He was like, hey, I've been following your content forever. I'm also working for a founder. um would love your advice. I'm like, absolutely.

13:03.19
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

13:03.47
Betsy Hamm
So, I mean, it's just that give and take relationship.

13:03.91
Lyndsay Dowd
Well,

13:06.33
Lyndsay Dowd
And look, you built this beautiful show to support other women and community. age and experience, it is our responsibility to pay it forward. And I mentor a lot of women and I'm very happy to do it.

13:20.43
Lyndsay Dowd
And I'm helping to build the next generation of leaders. It's really, really important to me. um But sometimes they just want to check themselves. Sometimes, you know, you just, Lynn's, I'm interviewing for this and I have some red flags. Can you just listen to this and tell me, you know, if I should be concerned?

13:37.77
Lyndsay Dowd
that perspective is gold.

13:39.75
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely.

13:39.84
Lyndsay Dowd
And especially if it's from someone you really look up to.

13:43.03
Betsy Hamm
No, that's, that's so true.

13:43.80
Lyndsay Dowd
Right. Yeah. Well,

13:44.32
Betsy Hamm
That's, that's been huge in my career and I will always do that. And it's funny because sometimes when you hear some of that negativity, it comes from older men, much older than us, um who aren't always supportive and you hear it's because they didn't get the support.

13:54.08
Lyndsay Dowd
and,

13:56.12
Betsy Hamm
So instead of being positive and flipping and be like, I need to be supportive. They take that as like, well, no one helped me.

14:00.13
Lyndsay Dowd
yeah

14:02.10
Betsy Hamm
So it's just flipping that, you know, as we move forward that we're doing that the next generation.

14:04.82
Lyndsay Dowd
what Love that you said that, Betsy. I think one of the things that um I always say, if you're in a funk, if you are feeling really down and a little lost, the first and best thing you could do is do something for someone else.

14:19.03
Lyndsay Dowd
And the second you do that, it takes you out of your own head and you are enjoying the reaction to whatever it is you're doing, but it makes you feel really good.

14:27.94
Betsy Hamm
That's true.

14:28.25
Lyndsay Dowd
Absolutely.

14:29.49
Betsy Hamm
And I like to think about the whole what comes around, goes around positively and negatively, right?

14:33.71
Lyndsay Dowd
absolutely

14:34.40
Betsy Hamm
We'll call it karma. But if you're if you're doing those things, it's just putting out that good energy, that good vibe. It's going to come back to you. So I think that's really important.

14:40.30
Lyndsay Dowd
hundred percent.

14:43.39
Lyndsay Dowd
I love that.

14:43.67
Betsy Hamm
Nice. So let's talk about your book, Top Down Culture. So you actually, speaking of LinkedIn, had a... Oh, there we go. Beautiful. We'll link that on our website. um You had a LinkedIn post, speaking of LinkedIn the other day, that I loved because I have not read your book yet.

14:56.73
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

14:58.51
Betsy Hamm
It's on my list. um And you wrote, when people feel unseen, unsafe, or undervalued, they don't just disengage, they disappear, sometimes physically, sometimes emotionally.

15:05.95
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

15:07.99
Betsy Hamm
Either way, the leader's legacy is the vacancy they leave behind. If you're a leader, you don't have the luxury of just doing your job. Your job is to inspire. Your job is to protect. Your job is to see people, really see them, and make sure they know they matter.

15:22.11
Betsy Hamm
i love that.

15:23.00
Lyndsay Dowd
Who wrote that?

15:24.58
Betsy Hamm
I know. I should have told you to read it, but I like i copy and pasted it.

15:27.33
Lyndsay Dowd
so i I'm glad you did.

15:28.71
Betsy Hamm
But

15:29.38
Lyndsay Dowd
It's so true. And i will tell you, um I have watched leaders do horrendous things. And I've watched people shrink into the background, become a fraction of who they were.

15:43.28
Lyndsay Dowd
and lose all confidence and all the wind in their sails. I have watched leaders literally jump on tables and curse and scream at people. I've watched leaders throw things.

15:54.94
Lyndsay Dowd
And then I've also watched leaders, I've had a number of them who saw me, understood I had major chops and great things to bring to the table. And they gave me incredible autonomy and said things like, how do you want to run the business?

16:10.35
Lyndsay Dowd
What you want to know? Holy crap. That's amazing.

16:13.63
Betsy Hamm
You're asking my opinion.

16:14.61
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah, let's go. um But when you give someone the space to do the job they're hired for, and you trust them to do that job. Hey guys, if people interviewed for a job and they got the job, let them do it.

16:29.85
Lyndsay Dowd
Stop micromanaging them. Stop you know overseeing everything they're doing because all you're doing is telling them you don't trust them. And trust is your currency.

16:40.62
Lyndsay Dowd
So when you build trust, that is when all of the magic happens. And one of the tips that I love to give leaders when you're starting out with a new team is to say, and this is a humbling question, you are admitting you don't know everything, but you say, how can I be the best leader for you?

16:59.77
Lyndsay Dowd
i don't know. I don't know what you need.

17:01.86
Betsy Hamm
Right. And everyone's different.

17:02.41
Lyndsay Dowd
And they're going to, everyone's going to give you a different answer based on age, based on tenure, based on experience, based on goals. And so the cool part about that is you get to meet people where they are.

17:14.56
Lyndsay Dowd
They're going to tell you, you know what? I know I'm on this marketing team, but I really like analytics. If you have an analytics opportunity, I'd love to jump in. Or i don't know what the heck I'm doing in this job. I was moved over from an acquisition and I would love a mentor.

17:30.69
Lyndsay Dowd
I'd love someone on the team who's doing really well to just show me the ropes. You know, if you don't ask, you don't know.

17:38.46
Betsy Hamm
ye

17:38.64
Lyndsay Dowd
And this is a, it's akin to parenting, right? If you have children, you cannot parent them all the same. You can have the same house rules, but your kids need different things.

17:47.97
Betsy Hamm
ye

17:50.89
Lyndsay Dowd
And so does everybody else. So figuring out, what makes people tick, what makes them shine, how they like to be recognized. That's an easy question.

17:59.95
Betsy Hamm
yeah

18:00.51
Lyndsay Dowd
Do you like your name in lights or do you like to fly quiet under the radar? Do you want to just be in an email or do you want to be on stage? Because I've seen people recognize...

18:12.57
Lyndsay Dowd
Terrible introverts. They're not terrible, but they're terribly introverted.

18:15.82
Betsy Hamm
right

18:16.36
Lyndsay Dowd
And put them on stage, they would rather die. like

18:20.89
Betsy Hamm
right

18:21.56
Lyndsay Dowd
is not fun for them. So just asking those questions makes you a better leader. It makes you way more in tune with your people. And when you start at the top with this kind of philosophy, if you are a CEO, you can call on any leader across the org and say, what's going on with your team?

18:38.07
Lyndsay Dowd
Tell me who's struggling. Tell me what they need. What are they asking for? I'll tell you a cool story.

18:43.32
Betsy Hamm
and love that

18:43.95
Lyndsay Dowd
um a friend of mine worked at Salesforce and um he was good sales rep. He was doing a good job and he just wasn't fulfilled. And his boss was like, you know, what's going on? And he's like, you know, I have this idea for a job.

18:58.08
Lyndsay Dowd
And I really would like to work with all of the executives across Salesforce. I would like to coach them on you know, being the best leaders they can, understanding the culture and being that kind of go between really watch talent across the organization. He's like, well, that job doesn't exist.

19:14.92
Lyndsay Dowd
Well, just so happened the next day that manager was with the CEO and he's like, so what's going on on your team? And he said, well, I have this one rep and he's good, but he had this idea to do this job.

19:27.69
Lyndsay Dowd
The CEO loved it. He said, make it happen.

19:30.22
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh.

19:30.97
Lyndsay Dowd
And he got the job. And he did this for years. And he built this entire framework for all the sales leaders across Salesforce. It was a phenomenally cool job. So fulfilled. He knew every executive, knew everything about their teams and what they needed.

19:45.61
Lyndsay Dowd
But if you don't ask, you don't know.

19:48.22
Betsy Hamm
That is so huge and so important because you think about how that manager leader um relationship works with their team. It's always to-do list, right?

19:56.75
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

19:56.91
Betsy Hamm
It's what are you doing and what do you need help with? like And it just gets very tactical.

19:58.68
Lyndsay Dowd
Yep.

20:00.10
Betsy Hamm
And of course that has to happen, but there's that piece of, and there's performance reviews, which that can be a whole other ah conversation.

20:00.28
Lyndsay Dowd
Of

20:04.58
Lyndsay Dowd
course. Oh my God.

20:07.72
Betsy Hamm
But how often do leaders ask for feedback?

20:07.82
Lyndsay Dowd
How much time do we have?

20:10.76
Betsy Hamm
Like, how can I help you?

20:11.29
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

20:11.80
Betsy Hamm
What are you doing? What do you need? And I just, I don't think that happens.

20:13.23
Lyndsay Dowd
Right.

20:14.44
Betsy Hamm
And I i think back to like relationship relationships and conversations I've had, but it's like asking how you can help support them.

20:20.96
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah. Well, and that whole idea of I don't have time to meet with my people, get out of the damn job.

20:27.88
Betsy Hamm
know

20:28.02
Lyndsay Dowd
You are in the wrong job.

20:29.83
Betsy Hamm
ye

20:29.90
Lyndsay Dowd
You are responsible to your people. And if your calendar is so overloaded with meetings, which are likely a lot of management mumbo jumbo that probably could have been an email, let's be honest, you're doing it wrong.

20:41.73
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

20:44.21
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

20:44.51
Lyndsay Dowd
And you either have to push back or make time on your calendar to meet with your people regularly.

20:50.26
Betsy Hamm
And to help support them, right? Not to try to do their job, do the micromanagement, get into the weeds.

20:52.33
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah. No, no.

20:56.53
Betsy Hamm
It's to help support them to do their job.

20:57.63
Lyndsay Dowd
Right. Right.

20:58.27
Betsy Hamm
And and I think that's where people miss the whole concept of leadership or management.

21:02.85
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

21:02.98
Betsy Hamm
They think, oh, it's higher title, higher pay, higher power.

21:05.80
Lyndsay Dowd
Power. Mm-hmm.

21:07.33
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

21:07.44
Lyndsay Dowd
Mm-hmm.

21:07.83
Betsy Hamm
that they don't, they miss the whole point of what that actually entails and what their days should look like.

21:08.26
Lyndsay Dowd
Mm-hmm.

21:12.43
Betsy Hamm
And you're right. at two ah hundred meeting It's meetings. It's supporting your team.

21:15.55
Lyndsay Dowd
No. I think so many people mistake getting into leadership with a ladder they need to climb. And they're not really considering the fact that they are responsible to people.

21:27.08
Lyndsay Dowd
um And I know, i mean, we've all we've all seen it where the top performer gets promoted. And, you know, that person doesn't give a rat's ass about anybody.

21:38.32
Lyndsay Dowd
um And they're so frustrated that their team isn't doing exactly what they did. And so everyone's disenfranchised with each other. It's likely a toxic situation. That person probably manages up very well.

21:51.17
Lyndsay Dowd
And you've just decimated your culture.

21:53.37
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

21:53.61
Lyndsay Dowd
um So stop doing that, please.

21:55.37
Betsy Hamm
Yes. I have seen that more than, well, 500 times. but

21:59.50
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

22:00.23
Betsy Hamm
So if you're the employee team member listening to this and you have the boss who's not doing that, how do you with that?

22:08.80
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

22:08.77
Betsy Hamm
Because you're miserable, you're feeling micromanaged, you're probably not producing the way that you should.

22:11.85
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

22:13.66
Betsy Hamm
How do you handle that?

22:15.09
Lyndsay Dowd
I just talked to a client yesterday about this and she has a new manager who is kind of doing the whole, there's a new sheriff in town.

22:23.54
Betsy Hamm
Oh,

22:23.60
Lyndsay Dowd
Um, and he has his own ideas about how things should go and he is not taking the time to understand her, to get to know her, to see all the depth and breadth of relationships that she's built.

22:35.16
Lyndsay Dowd
And his, mean, unfortunately she, she saw, she saw that he, um, scheduled a meeting with HR, which I think it likely means he's trying to move her out of business.

22:45.53
Betsy Hamm
yeah. yeah

22:46.90
Lyndsay Dowd
And so she's devastated and she's going, what do I do? And the first thing I said, you know, if you like the company that you're at, now's the time to go do those informational interviews. Now's the time to find those leaders in the other parts of the business.

23:00.05
Lyndsay Dowd
Maybe you've worked with them before. Maybe you know who they are. Maybe they know who you are. Reach out and start saying, hey, I'm popping my head up. I'm looking for something new. Are you hiring?

23:11.77
Lyndsay Dowd
Or do you know anybody who is within the company? I don't want to leave. And if you've built a good reputation for yourself, most people are going to be pretty happy about those calls.

23:22.00
Betsy Hamm
Sure. Right.

23:22.36
Lyndsay Dowd
um There's always the whole like, ooh, does so-and-so know? And yes, you're going to have those political things, but you also have to protect yourself.

23:29.12
Betsy Hamm
right

23:33.04
Lyndsay Dowd
And staying under a leader like the one who fired me, um is not only bad for you um emotionally, it's really bad for you psychologically, and nobody should stay in that type of climate.

23:48.52
Lyndsay Dowd
um I'm not saying get out of corporate and go be an entrepreneur. I'm saying, you know look around, see who's hiring. If there's a place that you can land in your company, that's an easier move.

23:59.53
Lyndsay Dowd
than starting from scratch at another company. um It's not to say you wouldn't get more money, you very well could.

24:05.28
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

24:05.49
Lyndsay Dowd
But um this is a really volatile time. And it's real hard to land jobs right now. The market is full of job seekers, and you need to set yourself up for success.

24:20.41
Lyndsay Dowd
And so greasing the skids and reaching out to people outside of your reporting chain is really important.

24:26.66
Betsy Hamm
That's very good advice. So do you think, we'll call them bad leaders, do you think most of them know they're bad and do you think they can never change?

24:34.49
Lyndsay Dowd
I think we got two problems. I think one, they don't know that they're bad and two, they don't care.

24:39.80
Betsy Hamm
oh

24:40.84
Lyndsay Dowd
So, you know, when I look back at some of the worst leaders I had, but there was a lot of them. um It was a total power play for them.

24:49.67
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

24:49.90
Lyndsay Dowd
I actually had, listen to this. I had this story. This is terrible. i had this leader. We were in, ah it was like a happy hour. We had our business partners there. i don't remember what the event was.

25:00.52
Lyndsay Dowd
Um, and I said, Oh, I want to introduce you to one of my business partners. And so I brought them over and I said, Oh, this is my boss. So-and-so. Oh, nice to meet you. Nice that he's exchanged. Fine.

25:11.49
Lyndsay Dowd
The business partners leave the room and then he's addressing the rest of us. So there's over a hundred people in the room. And he said, Hey everyone, I just want you to understand something. Never introduce me as your boss.

25:25.51
Lyndsay Dowd
I am your manager. And I was like, is that Is this really happening? So what he did was assert his power, but he fractured, let's say shattered my trust of him.

25:42.34
Lyndsay Dowd
And I never wanted another thing to do with that man again.

25:45.98
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh.

25:47.26
Lyndsay Dowd
So I would do anything but work for him. And if it if it was like, I raised my hand all the time to do weird stuff.

25:50.45
Betsy Hamm
Right.

25:54.69
Lyndsay Dowd
I was happy to do that. If his name was on it, I'm like, oh, you're on your own. I'll be over here. um But that is a real nonsense way to lead. And that doesn't instill trust. It doesn't instill...

26:08.02
Lyndsay Dowd
um you know, any kind of wisdom or that is a stupid semantics, who cares kind of thing.

26:10.39
Betsy Hamm
Right.

26:13.87
Betsy Hamm
Right.

26:15.08
Lyndsay Dowd
And he had so many choices with the way he could have handled that. He could have pulled me aside afterwards and say, hey, listen, I prefer that you introduce me as your manager. I would have been like, oh, God, I'm sorry. i didn't realize that was wrong.

26:24.74
Betsy Hamm
Right.

26:26.90
Lyndsay Dowd
I don't think it's wrong either. But, you know, in his case, he was just discerting power. So don't be that guy. that's That's lousy.

26:34.64
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh. Yep.

26:35.46
Lyndsay Dowd
So you have these people that are in it for the wrong reasons. There's a lot of boys club stuff that still happens today. People promote who they know.

26:46.49
Lyndsay Dowd
And who they feel safe with um and who they can be exclusive with. I hated that exclusive style of management. I did never inspired me and I always ran the other way.

26:59.60
Lyndsay Dowd
um And I never performed when I was in that circumstance.

27:02.74
Betsy Hamm
back

27:04.12
Lyndsay Dowd
Whenever I had somebody who gave me autonomy and said, you know, how else could we do this? What's a different way to approach this? I rose to the top every single time.

27:13.63
Betsy Hamm
Right.

27:14.76
Lyndsay Dowd
So you really have to understand that those choices will have a direct impact on your results.

27:20.97
Betsy Hamm
And on your sanity.

27:23.22
Lyndsay Dowd
Hell yeah.

27:24.25
Betsy Hamm
There's nothing worse than being in a situation like that because it's not going to change, you know, and and the person could go for coaching, and get a 360, whatever it is, but there they're in the wrong position, which then has that trickle down, top down effect.

27:25.55
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

27:29.01
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

27:34.51
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah. And he continued to get promoted over and over and over again.

27:37.18
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. crazy.

27:42.64
Lyndsay Dowd
Gross.

27:45.42
Betsy Hamm
So what are your other big like takeaways from you know your heart-centered leadership or from top-down culture that just you know if you can instill in the world, we'd be all in a better place?

27:50.70
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

27:55.58
Lyndsay Dowd
Oh, yeah. One of my favorite things that I love to talk about is um I don't call them soft skills. I call them power skills.

28:02.26
Betsy Hamm
Hmm.

28:02.66
Lyndsay Dowd
And they are far too important to be called anything soft. So um some of these are, one of my favorite ones is delegation. And delegation, everyone's like, oh, I'm going to get stuff off my plate. Yes, that's true.

28:14.55
Lyndsay Dowd
But if you've been asking the question of how can I be the best leader for you, then you know what people are interested in. So if you have a project that you can delegate or you can let someone run point on, you do it.

28:29.54
Lyndsay Dowd
But you are responsible for that project.

28:32.84
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

28:33.16
Lyndsay Dowd
And if they fall down on their face, that's on you. They don't take that blame. I have been thrown under the bus before by people that delegated and it is absolutely damaging. It's you you shatter all trust and you won't ever do anything for them again. You won't stick your neck out for them any anymore.

28:49.75
Lyndsay Dowd
So when you give them that opportunity, you have to say, I know you love analytics. I've got this analytics project. I would love you to run point on it. I'd love you to lead it. Are you comfortable with that?

29:00.90
Lyndsay Dowd
And if anything goes south, it's on me. You got that? Oh my God. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, boss.

29:06.23
Betsy Hamm
Wow.

29:07.38
Lyndsay Dowd
This is great. I'm excited. Let's go. You're giving them an opportunity to shine. You're, and guys, oh my God, I can't say this enough. When you celebrate the people on your team and you give them credit for the things that they are doing, that looks good on you.

29:23.39
Betsy Hamm
Yes.

29:23.77
Lyndsay Dowd
This leadership concept of, oh, if I give so-and-so credit, no one's going to think I'm a good leader.

29:23.77
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. yeah

29:30.54
Lyndsay Dowd
No, dummy. They work for you. This is great. You want your people to shine and you want them to talk about you. So... When you delegate, when you celebrate, celebrating people, everyone can do this. You do not need to be an HR leader to do this.

29:46.76
Lyndsay Dowd
Anybody, you can do it on LinkedIn. You can do it every day. i try and do it every day. When someone does even something this big, that is so cool. You shout them out.

29:57.43
Lyndsay Dowd
You send them the text. you You celebrate them publicly, whatever. And that always looks good on you.

30:04.72
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh. I can't like that comment enough. And I have always been a big advocate of that with my teams. And I've had people on my team who can't get that. And that's hard. Like this makes you look better.

30:14.10
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah. Yeah.

30:14.95
Betsy Hamm
her

30:15.51
Lyndsay Dowd
yeah

30:15.63
Betsy Hamm
ah This isn't a competition. they They support you. They're supposed to be lifting you up too. So yeah, of course.

30:20.35
Lyndsay Dowd
Oh, I have a little story. Can I tell you a little story that goes with that? So I had a client and um she was a VP and she had kind of a a call center kind of set up. And so think of cubicles and prairie dogging and that whole thing.

30:33.64
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

30:34.38
Lyndsay Dowd
And she started to implement this little system she made up and she started putting sticky notes on people's desks whenever she heard that they did a great call or they had, you know, a really great review or whatever. And she just walked by and she'd put the sticky note on the desk and you'd see the sticky note and it would say like, you know, Betsy, phenomenal job with that last call. You know, it sounded great.

30:57.13
Lyndsay Dowd
And you're like, wow, she noticed and she's a VP.

30:58.55
Betsy Hamm
all yeah Oh,

31:00.18
Lyndsay Dowd
That's pretty cool. And so, you know, they'd see her walking around and they'd be like, oh, maybe she's coming to me. Maybe she's kind of, so it raised the bar. Everybody started doing a little bit better, but the coolest thing that happened is everyone started doing it for each other.

31:15.11
Lyndsay Dowd
And so they'd be like, hey, Fred, nice job on that. And so it creates this infectious celebratory environment where people are excited to show up for each other.

31:24.20
Betsy Hamm
Love that.

31:27.77
Lyndsay Dowd
They're excited to help. They're excited to be connected. And she set that tone. And that's just from celebrating people. So imagine what that can do to your results when everybody is looking out for each other and saying, nice job. like That's not a threat to me when I say, you did that really well.

31:44.79
Betsy Hamm
no

31:48.15
Betsy Hamm
And imagine the difference in the environment, right? Like the energy, the support, the excitement, that just changes everything for everybody. So when you go to work, you're probably going in with a better attitude because you're just feeling more positive, right?

31:59.24
Lyndsay Dowd
100% and you're happy to see people. And you know, when Fred gave you the sticky note that you didn't expect, you're like, what's up, Fred? Like all of a sudden you've got a new friend.

32:06.15
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

32:08.50
Lyndsay Dowd
You've got someone you're a little more interested in, a little more connected to and think where that can go.

32:08.57
Betsy Hamm
Oh.

32:14.16
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah.

32:14.47
Betsy Hamm
And it's a little post-it note. I mean, it's so simple. And I love the point that for a lot of times starts with the leader, other people got to get involved and get engaged and and help support your team.

32:23.14
Lyndsay Dowd
Yeah. Yeah.

32:24.49
Betsy Hamm
That's huge.

32:25.30
Lyndsay Dowd
ma'

32:25.29
Betsy Hamm
Oh, I love that.

32:25.57
Lyndsay Dowd
It's cool.

32:26.47
Betsy Hamm
Lindsay, this was amazing. I appreciate this ah conversation so much. So people want to connect with you, find out where, where can they find you?

32:33.37
Lyndsay Dowd
So my website is heartbeatforhire.com. All of my socials are connected there. I'm very active on LinkedIn. Please connect with me. Say you heard it here um Loud and Lifted. And um yeah, i'm I'm always happy to connect with other women and other people and other leaders.

32:49.45
Lyndsay Dowd
um My whole mission in life is to change leadership as we know it and make it way more heart-centered. So thank you for the opportunity to share.

32:56.89
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh, I love it. Thank you. And i'm I totally support your your approach for sure.

33:01.45
Lyndsay Dowd
Thank you, friend.

33:01.54
Betsy Hamm
Thank you, Lindsay.

33:02.75
Lyndsay Dowd
Pleasure.