Mastering Your PIE: The Secret Recipe for Career Acceleration with Linda Strange

00:02.20
Betsy Hamm
Welcome to Loud and Lifted Linda. i' so happy to have you here.

00:07.43
linda
So great to see you, Betsy, and I'm so excited to be here as well.

00:10.90
Betsy Hamm
So before we get into the topic, which is one of my favorite topics, Pi, and anybody who's listened knows I mention it like every other episode, let's talk a little bit about you, how we even know each other, and how we even became connected.

00:24.33
linda
It's crazy when we think about it, right? Because we were just saying it's been 20 years since that you and I met.

00:28.05
Betsy Hamm
It's crazy.

00:28.89
linda
And a bit about me that you know is that, you know, I spent 20 years with the Hershey Company. So that was kind of my corporate career. I was in sales and marketing. I morphed into like a sales trainer.

00:39.81
linda
And then I was like, wow, I really love this work. I love working with the workforce and emerging leaders and helping them, you know, kind of get started in their careers and doing training and facilitation. And so I kind of took that then to the next level and got into an organizational development role, um never went back to sales.

00:57.79
linda
Although I always say, you know, kind of selling organizational development initiatives is selling as well.

00:59.97
Betsy Hamm
Still sales. Yes.

01:03.31
linda
um But I just love that work. And so after 20 years with the Hershey company, I went out on my own, started my own business called PeopleTracks, which is when I started to do some work with Hershey Entertainment and and you and I were connected.

01:15.45
linda
And the focus of PeopleTracks has been kind of the same, like everything that I learned in those roles at Hershey

01:15.57
Betsy Hamm
yes

01:23.10
linda
coaching emerging emerging leaders, um you know leadership development, training and facilitation. And really just my my passion is really helping emerging leaders like maximize their potential and kind of set themselves on on the career journey or the career path that they want.

01:40.98
Betsy Hamm
Well, I can say you helped me do that. That started 20 years ago, and I had the opportunity to work with you for several years in a coaching capacity.

01:44.73
linda
Thank you. Yes. Yes.

01:48.46
Betsy Hamm
um And a lot of those things that you taught me 20 years ago, I still use and refer back to. we maybe save the whole ah circle of influence, circle of control for another day.

01:56.74
linda
Yes.

01:57.78
Betsy Hamm
um but today we're going to dig into Pi, which was um an idea that you had shared with actually the Women in Leadership group years ago.

02:00.68
linda
Yes.

02:05.90
Betsy Hamm
and out of All the things that I have learned through the career or through my career, ah the one that has stuck with me, the one that I have taught pretty much any woman on my team, I actually try to enforce this with my teenage daughters because I think it's relevant ah to anyone, not just a professional setting, but school, sports, take your pick.

02:19.99
linda
Yeah, right.

02:25.47
Betsy Hamm
um So it's been mentioned on a couple of previous episodes, but we have to have the expert here, the one who introduced this to me, to really talk us through, like, what is pie and why should we care about it?

02:37.42
linda
I love that. And I love that you're talking pie with your teenage daughters, which I've done as well with my kids. um Because the earlier you, like, I always wish that I had learned this earlier in my career.

02:48.42
linda
um i even, you know, have done this kind of work with interns and that kind of thing, because, you know, you get this idea and this concept early on, it can really help you.

02:52.60
Betsy Hamm
yep

02:56.80
linda
So the the pie model is, um I like to call it a career enrichment or a career effectiveness model. And it's like you said, it's super easy to embrace. And that's what people like about it the most because it's something they can remember.

03:10.15
linda
um And it reflects the interplay the interplay of three important components on your career. So P for performance, I for image and E for exposure. So, you know, performance is easy to wrap your hands around, right? It's it's you what you're praised on, what you're what's expected of you, the role that you have, the things that you do every day, your your responsibilities.

03:32.40
linda
i A little bit more difficult to wrap your arms around, right? So it has to do, it's for image and it has to do with your reputation and and um the words that people use to describe you, which usually scares people half to death when they think about that.

03:49.15
linda
But it's your personal brand, right? And what I say about Pi is you have to really be aware of what your image is because if you don't craft your eye, it will be crafted for you.

04:00.83
linda
So we'll talk more about that, but

04:01.32
Betsy Hamm
Mm-hmm.

04:02.78
linda
um It's an interesting thing to think about. And then E is exposure. It's, you know, who's mentoring you, your advocates, your network, the things you do outside of work where you're making important connections.

04:13.63
linda
And really, if you think about E, it's the showcase for the other two, because when you have those opportunities to get in front of people, um you have advocates that you're in meetings with.

04:25.66
linda
What are you show? How are you showcasing? your P and how are you, um building or crafting your eye when you have that stage? So that's, that's what the E stands for.

04:38.35
linda
And I know that, you know, this really well.

04:39.75
Betsy Hamm
Yep. No, it's always good to have a refresh because I talk about it a lot, so I should make sure I'm saying the right thing.

04:46.02
linda
The right things.

04:47.45
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

04:48.56
linda
Yeah. So, you know, just, um, I think sometimes it's important to share some personal stories about this. So I'll share one of mine and then I'd like to you to share one of yours.

04:53.63
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely.

04:58.54
linda
I think it could be helpful for the group. So, you know, there's a reason why this is really important early on in your career. And I never really had this concept. And um I'll share a story that was really a turning point in my career.

05:10.18
linda
And it really had to do with get getting some coaching on Pi. um and specifically i One of the difficult things about I is that not only is it difficult for us to wrap our arms around, but it's it's usually difficult for managers to coach on it.

05:26.99
linda
It's not a natural thing. you know Some managers are just really intuitively good at giving i type of feedback. But most aren't. And so for i which is super important and could be something that's derailing your career, you don't even know about it, it's important for us to you know be aware, get the f feedback we need if it's not being given to us. So the story I have to tell is years ago when I was at Hershey and I was the new director of um sales staffing training and development, and I was kind of a leading edge type of innovative thinker when it came to OD types of initiatives and a little bit more of a risk taker than most HR people would be because I came from a sales and marketing background.

06:08.31
linda
But I was in the process of creating this kind of leading edge DE&I initiative, which was kind of new to the organization at the time. So years and years ago. um And i went, ah my supervisor, who was the VP of sales and also the chief um customer officer, he and I went to the corporate building to kind of, you know, present this initiative and get approval from, you know, across the HR group um to move forward with this.

06:38.77
linda
So I had what I thought was an unbelievable presentation, of course, and, um, you know, say still selling, right? and And presented it with all the facts and, you know, just the excitement that I had about moving this forward in the organization.

06:54.45
linda
And it was met with a lot of pushback um because it was kind of leading edge and maybe a little risk taking. um Even though the I's were dotted and T's were crossed, it felt a little risky to the organizational professionals in that area.

07:11.42
linda
And so it wasn't like they put the kibosh on it, but they started asking me a lot of questions. um And my response to those questions were maybe what they not should not have been.

07:24.01
linda
um Not that I was disrespectful, but I think I got defensive.

07:27.39
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

07:27.97
linda
Likely I was had some facial expressions and body language, which were um like, how can you be questioning this? It's so awesome.

07:35.31
Betsy Hamm
yep

07:36.68
linda
um And, you know, just kind of that almost like a leadership. What I look at now is probably like a leadership in maturity. Like, this is so awesome. How come we're not all jumping on on board with this?

07:50.18
linda
um So anyway, when my boss and I, and my supervisor and I left and went back to um you know our offices, he said, let me talk to you for, can you got a minute?

08:00.43
linda
like, yeah, yeah, yeah. go And it was so awesome the way he put this, but you talk about coaching on I. um he said to me, i love your passion and everyone in our organization loves your passion.

08:15.34
linda
But i I fear that when you show up in those situations, you get reactionary and impatient. You wear your heart on your sleeve because this is really important to you.

08:26.97
linda
And I know that about you, but they don't know you as well.

08:29.30
Betsy Hamm
Right.

08:30.53
linda
And I would hate for them to think that you are an emotional, reactionary, impatient type of leader. He said, I want you to focus on a word and that's poise.

08:41.93
linda
I want to see, i don't want you to lose your passion, but I want you to share your passion with poise and understand that when people are asking questions, they want the product to be better.

08:44.84
Betsy Hamm
right

08:53.65
linda
It's not that they are challenging you. They just want the product to be better. And that fact finding is important for this initiative to fly. So we're going to have another chance to do this and we're going to work on how we show up and in that way.

09:07.15
linda
And we'll get this thing moving forward, but you know I don't want your reputation to suffer.

09:11.10
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh.

09:12.18
linda
I mean, so okay, this is like however many years ago, 20 some years ago, but I remember it as a turning point.

09:12.01
Betsy Hamm
What an amazing coach and boss just handle it that way.

09:20.45
linda
And I always think because I, you know, me, I'm an excitable person.

09:21.25
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

09:24.59
linda
I'm passionate.

09:24.52
Betsy Hamm
Sure. Yep.

09:25.86
linda
um And some of those things are my strengths, but I try very hard to keep that poise word in mind. And that comes from that little image or eye coaching session um that I had.

09:38.23
Betsy Hamm
That is so awesome.

09:38.66
linda
Yeah. Pretty amazing.

09:38.91
Betsy Hamm
And I can totally relate to that. I can't say I ever got feedback that nice, but having the passion and the enthusiasm, i can be defensive.

09:43.27
linda
Exactly. and

09:48.09
Betsy Hamm
And you know i was aware of the image piece and I think we get stuck on like, well, what are we wearing and how do we look? And that's Part of it, right? That's part of the image. But it's so much about how you talk to people and the facial expressions you make and your body language. And, you know, I can think back times even recently where maybe I'm making that, you know, WTF face.

10:09.02
Betsy Hamm
or

10:09.48
linda
exactly

10:10.43
Betsy Hamm
Or whatever it is, you know, like where you're and you have to, it's poise is such a great word that you kind of have to maintain composure and control and still get your point across.

10:14.74
linda
Yes. Yes.

10:20.32
Betsy Hamm
But once you become defensive or combative or just snarky, like everybody else like doesn't listen to you anymore. So it's, it's being able to have that control to be able to respond in a way that's productive versus people being like, oh, she's annoying.

10:28.16
linda
That's right.

10:35.56
linda
Just exactly.

10:35.63
Betsy Hamm
She's emotional. Yeah.

10:37.55
linda
And, you know, I found it in that particular situation, a great thing to do is just open up some questions like when you feel yourself getting because you and I have also talked about triggers and like you have that kind of trigger thing where like somebody is questioning my brilliance, you know, like.

10:47.10
Betsy Hamm
Oh yeah, that's a trigger for me.

10:51.78
Betsy Hamm
Right. I am clearly in the right.

10:54.47
linda
be able to say, oh, well, now that's a different perspective. Like, tell me more is just a way more poised way to like move forward with trying to collaborate on things. So that's just one story, one example.

11:06.38
linda
I don't know if you have a personal story to share that you might share with the group as well.

11:06.40
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

11:09.18
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. I mean, I, A lot of my challenges, I think, have been around that. It's been around being defensive and being coming across combative, and then people kind of shut you down. So it's been trying to focus on the the poise and the control of that.

11:23.25
Betsy Hamm
um And I think about, through my career, being so aware of this ah with... women on my team and especially younger team members where, you know, whether it's on a team's meeting, like the virtual, or they're sitting in a conference room.

11:37.21
Betsy Hamm
And this is like, goes back to lean in, right? Like they come in and they sit in the back of the room and they don't raise their hand or, you know, try to, ah add any value to the meeting. And they're just, sometimes you can even see them if they, so i I would force them to sit at the table sometimes outside their comfort zone.

11:50.74
linda
Yes, absolutely.

11:52.26
Betsy Hamm
And you could see some were just so uncomfortable. Like they would try to make themselves smaller.

11:55.38
linda
Yes.

11:56.56
Betsy Hamm
And again, it goes back to that image that that like, oh, she doesn't deserve to be here.

11:57.20
linda
Yes.

12:01.82
Betsy Hamm
So um it's been something I've just been so aware of.

12:02.21
linda
Relax confidence. you

12:04.87
Betsy Hamm
One, being introduced to this so young, not that I've done it perfectly. And then having boss who is very big on pie with image and exposure and getting out there, um it does really make it top of mind of like, okay, how do I do this better?

12:20.24
Betsy Hamm
And I know in the past, we've talked about like those enhancers and derailers, right?

12:24.76
linda
Yes.

12:24.87
Betsy Hamm
So how do you kind of look at some of those things that enhance your pie? And what are some of those things that can derail it?

12:31.75
linda
Absolutely. And, you know, we've been talking about eye a lot because it is one of those things that you have to wrap your arms around a little bit more. But, you know, going back to P, I think the important thing to think about is P is table stakes, right?

12:43.87
linda
So you have to perform before you think about these other things.

12:43.93
Betsy Hamm
hu

12:47.41
linda
So you could be doing a great job with your image, but if you're a low performer, then so, you know, the table stakes is performance.

12:51.22
Betsy Hamm
Right. It doesn't matter.

12:54.33
linda
It's the thing to focus on. It's the foundation, obviously. And then the I and E just kind of grow on that. And, you know, so it's the kind of thing where as your career progresses, where you've become a strong performer over time is the time to like really think about these things.

13:10.57
linda
And also when you go into a new role, you know, you may have been spending, you know, strong performers spending a lot of time on I and E and then you, you know, you do a good job there and you get that promotion. Now you're in a new role.

13:22.41
linda
You kind have to shift back to making P your focus, right?

13:25.11
Betsy Hamm
Right.

13:26.39
linda
Not to, and not to diminish the I and E at that point, but it's really kind of pies a journey almost through your career. um We haven't talked a lot about E yet. And, you know, e is one of those things where, like I said, it's about your network. It's about your, you know, gaining sponsorship and mentorship and advocacy. Like, who are those people that are, you know, sharing stories about you and advocating for you when you're not even there?

13:51.93
linda
Right.

13:51.97
Betsy Hamm
right

13:52.73
linda
So that's super important as well. And, you know, I think about the fact that in this remote and hybrid world, e has become more of a challenge because, know,

13:58.69
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely.

14:01.37
Betsy Hamm
absolutely

14:02.69
linda
you know, kind of the myth about E in the past has been that exposure is those things that i wait ah wait for. Like it's the annual sales meeting. It's the town hall event where, you know, all the leadership team is there. It's the the cocktail hour before this affinity group meeting, like whatever the case might be when you're going to have the opportunity to, you know, brush elbows with a lot of leadership team and stuff. And and and that's really important. And those things still happen.

14:31.53
linda
um And at those types of things, it is important to not sit with your team, not go into the corner and you know just be snacking on you know the vegetable tray with the people you work with every day, but take the risk.

14:36.91
Betsy Hamm
Right.

14:43.83
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

14:45.92
linda
Take the risk to go up to the CEO or the one of the VPs and say, I know we've met briefly, but um um we don't know each other that well. And I just wanted to say hello. I'm working on um a lot of great projects right now and really loving you know blah, blah, blah.

15:01.07
linda
you know Just taking that opportunity for that little what we call that little elevator speech when you have the opportunity and and not standing in the corner with the people you know.

15:05.39
Betsy Hamm
Right.

15:08.59
linda
so Those types of things. And of course, you know you have the opportunity to do a presentation at a leadership meeting or an executive meeting. I mean, that you are ready to really showcase that P and I when you have those opportunities.

15:23.03
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yep.

15:24.17
linda
So not to diminish those because we need to totally focus on them and really be intentional. But, you know, the myth about E is it's only those things. Well, I call those things the Broadway stage.

15:37.41
linda
But we have opportunities for E every day. So think community theater.

15:40.42
Betsy Hamm
yep

15:41.88
linda
Yeah.

15:44.10
linda
You know, because, um you know, you're on a ah Zoom call with your team. You're on, um you have the opportunity, as you said, maybe your manager's on vacation and they've asked you to sit in on the weekly team meeting with their peers or um you're, you know, in this remote world, you're in in a Zoom meeting like that or, you know, whatever the case might be, you know, you have to take that opportunity to kind of craft, know,

16:11.28
linda
your eye. So engaging, asking questions, contributing. I mean, you want to think you want to be as intentional about those small kind of community theater events as you are the big events.

16:23.24
Betsy Hamm
Sure. So much.

16:23.75
linda
um So that's kind of the myth about e And the other thing that I would say about E is in this remote hybrid world, it's become more of a challenge, right?

16:31.74
Betsy Hamm
so much yeah

16:32.10
linda
So, so much so. um And I think that, you know, what I'm finding with a lot of folks um is that they're really enjoying this hybrid remote situation, which is great, right? Who wouldn't?

16:46.41
linda
um But the less time that you're in the office and the less exposure you get, the more intentional you have to be to make sure people know who you are, what you're producing, um you know what you're doing from a networking standpoint on the side.

17:02.28
linda
And so when you have those opportunities, take them. you know If you have the opportunity to work one day a week in the office or two, yeah you might consider going in two days a week if it's an opportunity to have water cooler conversation and um you know maybe Tuesdays is the weekly meeting where you have the opportunity to shine and contribute.

17:16.05
Betsy Hamm
Right. Right.

17:22.93
linda
you know It's just a matter of really being um thinking through those things and and to absolutely not miss um when there is kind of an opportunity for exposure.

17:34.21
linda
on it

17:34.46
Betsy Hamm
right

17:35.19
linda
I'll tell you about um a little story about a client that I was coaching. And, um you know, he's very excited about working remotely and, you know, doesn't necessarily feel the need to be in the office. And it was the company.

17:48.49
linda
and This is a small, you know, ah a smaller local kind of insurance company. So it's not a big ah company, but they have an annual Christmas party and everybody's there. And it's the opportunity for networking, that kind of thing.

18:01.43
linda
And he said to me, I don't think I'm going to go. I have a soccer game. And I said, I don't know that that's a great choice. this is an opportunity to like get dressed up, go to the Christmas party, say hello to all the folks that have something to do with your career.

18:16.22
linda
And I convinced him to do so. And he was glad that he did, but you know, that's kind of, and I was kind of surprised that he was going to, you know, go that route. But I think the more people are working at home, they, they just kind of don't think about how important those opportunities are.

18:29.58
Betsy Hamm
Right.

18:31.52
linda
So, and you, maybe you have some thoughts on that because you were, you know, you've led organizations that started working remotely.

18:32.28
Betsy Hamm
No, that's so true.

18:35.30
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, absolutely.

18:38.38
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yeah, it's funny. You know, the first part of my career, everything was in the office all the time. So it was trying to be intentional. Of course, I love the Broadway versus ah like the community stage. But it's even if you're in an office, like stopping by and saying hello.

18:51.52
Betsy Hamm
Like if somebody's sitting in, if it's appropriate, I understand some situations stopping by at a higher level person is not appropriate. But if you see them in the hallway, see them in the lunchroom. Like it's just engaging them. And you don't even sometimes have to have your elevator pitch right away.

19:03.92
Betsy Hamm
Maybe it's just, maybe it's introducing yourself.

19:04.41
linda
That's right.

19:06.20
Betsy Hamm
Maybe it's, you know.

19:06.68
linda
Yes.

19:07.93
Betsy Hamm
Making a comment about the weather, their kids. I don't know. Take a pick. But, you know, it doesn't have to be overcomplicated when you start just to sort of make that intro. Because I think if you start small, then you kind of build that confidence that like, oh, they didn't blow me off or act like they didn't know who i was.

19:23.20
Betsy Hamm
So you can kind of build the confidence over it with those small little like safe conversations.

19:28.94
linda
Yes, for sure.

19:30.15
Betsy Hamm
And I think too, now that also being on like the receiving end of that, right? Like i I loved when people who maybe I didn't work with a ton, even though it was a smaller company, would stop in my office. And it it could just be a little BS, right?

19:39.99
linda
Yes.

19:41.96
Betsy Hamm
Just to, hey, I saw this or the Steelers lost again, whatever, doesn't matter.

19:42.58
linda
yes

19:45.77
linda
yes

19:45.69
Betsy Hamm
But they made the intention to make a connection with me, which I appreciated. um And I think even if you're not in office, sometimes it's sending an email. So sometimes I would get an email from somebody that I didn't really have a reason to interact with a lot, but they'd say, hey, thanks so much for this.

20:01.68
Betsy Hamm
Or I love that we're doing that. It was just acknowledging something that was happening at the company, not complaining, that not not a good way for the exposure, but just reaching out with like positive feedback about something that was happening in the company.

20:08.95
linda
Yes. Mm-hmm.

20:12.83
linda
yes

20:13.96
Betsy Hamm
And I appreciated that. And then that gave me a reason to engage with that person. So a lot of times that's how those relationships could start because it just started with something as simple as like, hey, i love that we're doing this.

20:18.28
linda
and thank you

20:24.33
Betsy Hamm
Or I saw that the company did that. um And just sort of open that door probably made them more comfortable and then realize like, oh, this isn't scary. Like I can have conversations with her.

20:34.32
linda
Absolutely. And, you know, it's funny that you say that because most people will say, when I engage and try and meet new people, a lot of times it's because of my the E, like I'm engaging in E, but it's because what i I know about that person.

20:48.55
linda
I know that Betsy has teenage daughters.

20:48.86
Betsy Hamm
um

20:50.94
linda
I know that she's, you know, unfortunately a Steelers fan.

20:51.08
Betsy Hamm
Right.

20:54.17
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yeah.

20:55.77
linda
And, you know, those kinds of things because, you know, or, you know, I'll say like in my elevator speech that I play, I still play competitive tennis and I did the Susan G.

20:55.98
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

21:05.81
linda
Komen walk for breast cancer three times. And, you know, when I do my little intro, when I'm, you know, kind of, involved in you know a presentation or or even just like teaching a pie class that has um ah the elevator speech exercise.

21:21.87
linda
And it's amazing how many people come up to me like at a break and whatever, like, oh I play tennis too. Or you know i have i have a son that lives where your son lives in California.

21:26.23
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

21:30.26
linda
Or, um oh my gosh, I've done that walk. you know

21:34.30
Betsy Hamm
Right.

21:34.57
linda
And so that's kind of a lot of time sharing kind of those things that you do either outside of work or even inside of work, but maybe outside of your daily role, like ah affinity group stuff or task team stuff like sometimes that's the way to make the connection then to get more familiar with people.

21:43.96
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

21:50.30
Betsy Hamm
Right.

21:52.21
linda
So then you can kind of expand on um your eye at some point, let them know more about what you do professionally and that kind of thing.

21:58.44
Betsy Hamm
sure

22:00.21
linda
But those are a lot of times kind of the you know, entry into the relationship. So, yeah.

22:04.98
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. And sometimes you have to start small. And sometimes I understand people aren't all extroverted like us, ah where they're not comfortable starting, you know, those random conversations.

22:10.35
linda
Yes, that's right. oh

22:14.33
Betsy Hamm
So start with a conversation you're comfortable with, or a compliment, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be complicated.

22:16.56
linda
Something you're thinking. Yeah.

22:19.98
Betsy Hamm
I think that's where people get a little hung up or like, what are they gonna do walk away from you?

22:21.05
linda
yeah

22:23.89
Betsy Hamm
Like, what's the worst that can happen if you talk to somebody new?

22:27.56
linda
Exactly.

22:27.60
Betsy Hamm
I don't know.

22:28.94
linda
Exactly. It's so about about taking that risk. And you know um you bring up a ah few points about you know when I think about my coaching clients over the years, years and specifically women, you know I've seen the themes that I see around some mistakes that people make around i specifically women, or a couple of things i want to share.

22:52.36
linda
First of all, the total over-focus on P. with less focus on I&E. It's very easy to get very secure in the job that we do.

23:05.29
linda
and we're very It's a security blanket. like I do this job. I do it really well. It's my thing. I'm the go-to person. I get a lot of confidence from being really good at this job.

23:16.38
linda
and I might be putting 150% into this job, but my eyes are down. And the point of that is to, it's not all about, and you know now in a remote world, it even makes it a little different. But when we were all in the office,

23:31.67
linda
I would see people in their offices with their doors closed and just just knocking out work and tasks and to-do lists and staying in the office till hours.

23:34.36
Betsy Hamm
Yep. Right.

23:43.40
linda
you know and And that's only part of it because when your eyes are down, you are missing opportunities because it's never the person that's working 150% that never has any exposure or is not trying to craft their brand.

23:59.10
linda
that gets the promotions, right? It doesn't happen that way.

24:00.79
Betsy Hamm
right

24:01.90
linda
It really has to be an interplay of all the three. So I say the first thing, and even in this remote world, it's even more important, is have your eyes up, looking for those opportunities for more exposure and opportunities that people know who you are and what you stand for and not just the work you do.

24:19.16
linda
um And I see yeah women tend to have, and I may be overgeneralizing a little bit, but the themes that I've seen with the women versus the men I coach is the women tend to have that more of that over-focus perfectionist thing on P sometimes.

24:33.93
Betsy Hamm
Yep. Sure. yep

24:35.47
linda
So you giving 150% where you can be given and giving a little time to the other staff, you know, because the expectations are not, not everybody's given 150%.

24:42.61
Betsy Hamm
sure

24:48.08
linda
You don't need to do that. You need to think about the interplay of the three.

24:50.81
Betsy Hamm
Right.

24:51.62
linda
Yes.

24:51.84
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. And it's funny, too, because I always think, I just think through people I've met through my career, I feel like women struggle more with the exposure piece because they feel like they're going to come across as being cockier, taking the credit for something that was a team, and, oh, people just know what I'm doing, and kind of keep their head down working on their performance versus...

25:05.57
linda
Yes.

25:10.80
Betsy Hamm
Men have a natural ability, I feel like, to be able to get that exposure, to bullshit with people. Whatever it is, they just they have that ability to get that exposure, and it feels natural. Like it doesn't – well, some guys, they might not feel natural.

25:20.59
linda
Yes. Yes.

25:22.59
Betsy Hamm
It might feel a little over the top.

25:23.37
linda
Yes.

25:23.75
Betsy Hamm
But it just seems like women struggle with that as as an approach to get those exposure.

25:26.90
linda
little bit more. And it may be because they don't have, they have, you know, men seem to create those like more casual networks of, you know, this people I golf with and maybe have beers with or, you know, whatever.

25:33.80
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

25:38.00
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

25:39.43
linda
And then it's easier to kind of like build their network. For women, sometimes it has to be a little bit more intentional and we can have those networks as well with women at different levels in organizations.

25:51.06
linda
But again, it it takes a little bit of work, right?

25:53.56
Betsy Hamm
It takes work. And that goes back to the boys club versus the girls club.

25:56.30
linda
Yep.

25:56.80
Betsy Hamm
the The boys club is because they do that and nobody wants to be excluded from a club, but that's, I don't think it's intentional most of the time or malicious. It's just how they operate versus women.

26:06.12
linda
Yes. Yes.

26:06.38
Betsy Hamm
We have a harder time creating those relationships and establishing that. So there isn't a girls club. So we should work on the girls community, right?

26:12.07
linda
yeah We need to do that.

26:13.80
Betsy Hamm
That sounds more inclusive, but.

26:14.95
linda
And you know, you you know you and i were instrumental in in building that women in leadership group at Hershey Entertainment.

26:22.75
Betsy Hamm
No.

26:23.76
linda
I had done that at Hershey as well. And i mean, you saw firsthand, it was crazy. Like we bring we bring these women together from across the organization and different functions who were at like the same levels of organization and they had barely met each other.

26:39.32
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

26:40.14
linda
And you know at Hershey, it was even crazier because those women were kind of out in the field sales and in the organization. And there were people at like director levels, women at director levels who had never met before and just creating that network.

26:53.91
linda
So no matter if you work for a really small company or a really large one,

26:54.40
Betsy Hamm
yeah

26:58.40
linda
you know, take the initiative to kind of build a circle of women, you know, that can be supportive and that you have, you know, the opportunity to kind of vent to once in a while or, you know, go have a ah drink after work or, you know, get together.

27:01.77
Betsy Hamm
yeah

27:10.85
Betsy Hamm
Right.

27:12.57
linda
And, you know, a lot of us, too, are moms at different ages of, you know, of our um lives within our kids' lives and stuff. And so, you know, having that what network to be able to talk about, you know, kind of the challenges of balancing kind of the work-life thing and where your kids are and, you know, in their lives and, and you know, those things have been really kind of but irreplaceable in my life to have those circles.

27:36.56
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. It's critical. And it's so funny. Every single woman in this episode or on any episode has said the same thing. Like you need the support. You need the circle. You need multiple circles, right? There could be some professional, personal, but um you need that support and you need those circles or you're not going to be successful.

27:46.77
linda
So,

27:52.69
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

27:53.18
linda
That's right.

27:53.13
Betsy Hamm
No one's doing it on their own.

27:53.50
linda
So if they if they're not available to them, take the initiative to create it.

27:57.20
Betsy Hamm
Right.

27:57.67
linda
It doesn't have to be a formal, I mean, great if it could be like a formal kind of leadership affinity group, um women in leadership type of thing, but it doesn't need to be that formalized either.

28:03.45
Betsy Hamm
Yep. Yep.

28:07.00
Betsy Hamm
No.

28:07.93
linda
um If you're in a small organization or working hybrid, you know, kind of craft one on your own, right?

28:08.56
Betsy Hamm
Totally agree.

28:14.04
Betsy Hamm
Right. Okay. So if someone's listening to this and this is the first time they've heard about Pi and now they're sitting there probably thinking about their performance image exposure, like, wow, how did someone move forward?

28:24.55
Betsy Hamm
What do you suggest if someone's doing this they kind of want assess where they are and how they get

28:26.87
linda
On moving forward this, yeah. So a couple of little techniques, I think, um is to think about your eye. Well, first of all, think about your P and say, ah have i been have I been performing?

28:43.63
linda
Do I have ah ah point performance appraals appraisals and conversations with my manager that lead me to leave, that I am performing at an acceptable or exceptional or effective level?

28:54.47
linda
That's table stakes, right? And then if you say, yeah, that's true, that's true. And you want to, then you want to think about your I and your E and A little trick or a little technique um for your eye that I mentioned earlier that scares people half to death is to think about the words that people would, how people would describe you when you leave a room.

29:15.89
Betsy Hamm
Ask them.

29:16.29
linda
Now, that can be a little scary and you're like, oh my gosh, I have no idea.

29:16.17
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

29:20.69
linda
And you have to be really honest with yourself, right? So imagine you're in a meeting or on a Zoom call or whatever, and think about how you showed up and go, How would people describe me?

29:31.54
linda
um And if you don't know the answer to that question, you can do a little 360 and ask some peers, ask your boss.

29:36.50
Betsy Hamm
ask um yep

29:39.73
linda
I've asked my kids. That's really scary when you kids come back with stuff.

29:43.77
Betsy Hamm
and I'm not doing that.

29:44.29
linda
Yeah. realized that my sons are way less judgmental than my daughter is on me.

29:49.12
Betsy Hamm
That's not surprising.

29:49.57
linda
Her words were really scary. But um ah one of them was stalwart, which the the other kids were like, we don't even know what that means.

29:57.17
Betsy Hamm
No.

29:57.80
linda
It means like hardworking and generous combination. And like, I'm kind of like, that was my son-in-law, right?

30:00.52
Betsy Hamm
Oh, okay.

30:03.03
linda
Like, so he's course it's going to be nice to me.

30:03.35
Betsy Hamm
Oh, that is the nicest one, of course.

30:04.71
linda
But... enough But so um that's a really important exercise. And then there's kind of a part two to that exercise, right? So once you, maybe you kind of write down what you think, and then maybe you ask people to give you some feedback, your peers, your boss, your um direct reports, whatever the case might be.

30:24.81
linda
You compare them and you say, okay, here's some matches, but here's some gaps. Like, I didn't know that I was seen like this. And then you start to think about,

30:36.35
linda
What words do I want to add to my list that aren't there right now? And with the idea of what's my aspiration? am i am i um Is my aspiration to become more masterful in the role that I'm in Or is my aspiration to grow in the organization?

30:52.73
linda
um Make lateral moves. Like, what is your aspiration? And then you have to think about, like, what are the words, if I'm looking to grow in the organization and I've been in an individual contributor role for a while, or I'm looking to get to the next level of leadership, I want to really look at my words and say, are those the words that are going to get me there?

31:12.20
linda
I had a client once who was did the words and asked about them and did it and came back and was like really excited. And this was somebody who wanted to grow in the organization. And her words were things like friendly, fun, cooperative, accommodating, and personable.

31:29.19
Betsy Hamm
Right. Sir?

31:29.74
linda
And she was really excited about that. And I'm like... Those are great words and you should be very proud of them. But does somebody want to promote you into a leadership role with those words?

31:40.84
linda
What are the words that we need to add?

31:42.43
Betsy Hamm
right

31:43.15
linda
And what's the role that you want? Is it a marketing role? Do you need to be more strategic? Do you need to be more innovative? Do you need to be more leading edge? Do you need to be more creative or collaborative?

31:55.55
linda
Like those are great words, but they're probably great words that are going to keep you in the job that you're in.

31:56.32
Betsy Hamm
sorry

32:01.80
linda
supporting others, being personable, being fun. Like it's great to be fun. You can still be fun and be innovative.

32:08.05
Betsy Hamm
Right.

32:08.56
linda
What do we want to add? And then when you think about the words that you want to add, then it becomes really kind of an intentional thing. to say, if I'm going to get this exposure opportunity on this Zoom call, and there's going to be people on that Zoom call that are higher level than me, that are looking at me as a possible replacement for somebody on their team when things get shifted around,

32:33.96
linda
How am I going to show up strategic? I may not have the opportunity to contribute much, but when I contribute, it's going to be an innovative statement or a strategic statement. What does that look like?

32:44.68
linda
Right? So then you become really intentional. And that's what this whole idea of crafting your brand before it's crafted for you.

32:52.20
Betsy Hamm
I love that. Craft your brand before it's crafted for you.

32:53.19
linda
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

32:54.64
Betsy Hamm
That's so true. And it's being intentional. and and And again, it goes back to ah everybody's going a million miles a minute. We're trying to get things off of our list. And sometimes you have to take a step back and be intentional. of Like, where am I not showing up when I should be or how I should be?

33:07.97
linda
Yes.

33:07.85
Betsy Hamm
um and really evaluating that. And I think it's so important. And I've done that through my career. I asked people who I respected and trusted and know would give me an honest answers. Tell me how you describe me. Like ask people that's the best way because hopefully it's aligned with what you're thinking, but there might be a word or two that you're like, Ooh, I didn't know I came across that way.

33:18.70
linda
Yeah.

33:25.24
linda
Like outspoken?

33:25.17
Betsy Hamm
Or you might be thrilled that you come across a certain way.

33:26.71
linda
Yeah. Exactly. And so it's a matter of thinking about it with, like we said, within the context of your aspirations or, you know, what you want to do next in the company or that kind of thing.

33:40.27
linda
The other thing is to, i think, think about those opportunities when you're going to have exposure. And I think you started to mention this a little earlier.

33:50.89
linda
Another mistake that I see women make is um shying away from those opportunities. not sitting at the table, not contributing.

33:58.95
Betsy Hamm
Yep. Right.

34:00.27
linda
like For example, if you have the opportunity to go to a meeting you're not normally invited to because you're filling in, like you go, you sit at the table, and you're not just taking notes. You have thought ahead about what the agenda is and what you're going to contribute, right?

34:10.47
Betsy Hamm
right

34:15.07
linda
um The other thing that I think when you talk about mistakes that are made and things to think about moving forward with your eye, a couple of things that I'd like to bring up for women because I see it all the time and it's, I want to and I know you've seen it as well.

34:32.50
linda
You have a woman who now has this emerging leader, has this opportunity for exposures in front of a group of leaders and is, is, starts the presentation by saying, i want I don't want to take much of your time today and I'll apologize if this isn't exactly what you're thinking it was going to be.

34:45.26
Betsy Hamm
um

34:48.62
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

34:53.32
linda
Whatever.

34:53.92
Betsy Hamm
Right.

34:54.43
linda
It's that, and and it happens more often than you think, you know, um I'm not going to take much of your time, like almost like this apologetic kind of thing before you even start.

34:56.82
Betsy Hamm
So often. Yep. Apology.

35:02.20
Betsy Hamm
Apology.

35:05.77
linda
And then the whole idea of, um you know, um apologies in advance if this isn't the way you wanted to see the data or

35:15.38
Betsy Hamm
Right.

35:16.23
linda
It happens all the time because I think women sometimes when they're in showcasing and having that opportunity feel like if I kind of throw this kind of validator in at the beginning, they won't expect much.

35:17.24
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

35:29.36
linda
or something like that, you know?

35:29.35
Betsy Hamm
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

35:31.41
linda
And so I can't disappoint them. Instead, you want to walk in like as a confident person, like I'm here today to share this data.

35:35.99
Betsy Hamm
Right.

35:38.85
linda
I've done a lot of research. I've explored options. This is the way that I think we should go, but I'm looking to have some really robust discussion today so we can collaborate as a team. Like,

35:49.96
linda
is

35:50.57
Betsy Hamm
Confidence.

35:50.79
linda
That's off the top of my head, but super different.

35:51.93
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

35:53.65
linda
And, you know, I see that more than you think. So I wanted to bring those up too, as a couple of mistakes that you

35:58.47
Betsy Hamm
That's so true. It's saying have had people on the team who say, I'm sorry a lot. I'm like, they almost started sentence. I'm sorry, but I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm sorry to ask. No, you're not fricking.

36:07.16
linda
made.

36:07.14
Betsy Hamm
Sorry.

36:07.43
linda
Yeah.

36:07.46
Betsy Hamm
Stop.

36:07.94
linda
Yeah.

36:08.26
Betsy Hamm
stop

36:08.51
linda
Time out.

36:08.85
Betsy Hamm
I mean, there was one that I would like call.

36:09.10
linda
Great.

36:10.33
Betsy Hamm
I wanted to like have a shot caller. Like every time she said it.

36:12.65
linda
yeahy yeah china

36:14.19
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

36:14.90
linda
hey

36:15.25
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. It's a bad habit.

36:15.83
linda
So you also asked me, and and I thought something about this too. You'd also asked me like what pet what people should do with this moving forward. So I think that word exercise is a really good one.

36:27.42
linda
I think that maybe really giving some thought to the E opportunities that are upcoming and not just the Broadway stage, but the community events, community stage.

36:38.42
linda
um thinking about that. And then also thinking about the fact that when you have that E, how will you craft your brand? So those little E opportunities, if there's three words on your list that you don't think are there and you want to add them, how will I show up in those ways?

36:56.17
linda
So that's a great way to think about it as well. um The other thing Some people will ask me like, and I'm coaching some people right now, like my eye has left the station.

37:08.58
linda
It's already been crafted for me. And I'm our, I'm now I'm learning this. Like, is there a way I can fix my brand since it's left the station?

37:16.25
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

37:19.25
Betsy Hamm
Right. course.

37:19.92
linda
And I will tell you that I'm working with a coaching client right now who has just done that.

37:19.77
Betsy Hamm
Correct. Hmm.

37:23.68
linda
He is so, um, He's brilliant. He's strategic. He has all of the like leadership competencies kind of down, but he talks over people. He doesn't listen.

37:37.91
linda
He is my way of the highway. like These are now his words that I'm using to describe him, right?

37:41.69
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

37:43.84
linda
And he really wants to grow, and he definitely has the you know, the competencies to contribute a great deal to the organization. But, you know, people have said, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that he's moving to another role. I was going to leave the company if he was going to continue to work on this team.

38:02.96
linda
So, you know, really thinking about um what we're working on right now is how Kind of the same thing when every time I have the opportunity and not just in a meeting or where there's a bunch of people around, but in every one-on-one um opportunity I have to even meet with my internal constituents, my teammates, my peers, how I am going, what techniques I'm going to use to slow myself down, to take a breath, to listen and not have it be in genuine.

38:37.34
linda
Like it has to be authentic.

38:37.79
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yep. Sure. yep

38:39.58
linda
and And even a vulnerability part of that. So if you're trying to fix your eye, vulnerability is a huge thing to build trust. um And I will say that women have an edge there.

38:51.79
linda
I think we can become more vulnerable than men sometimes.

38:51.88
Betsy Hamm
sure

38:55.32
linda
But you know so if you think your eyes left the station, you know to go to a group of people or in a one-on-one and say, you know i was just exposed to this awesome concept.

39:06.70
linda
And I believe that I've done some damage to our relationship because i am pretty passionate. I move fast. I'm always action-oriented. But those things may come off as me only wanting to do this one way, not really listening, not wanting to collaborate. And I want to change that.

39:24.14
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

39:24.78
linda
So I hope that you'll take my vulnerability here as a way. This was difficult for me to come to you with, but I would like to start to rebuild this relationship and repair any damage that's been done because I really do respect your insights and I want us to collaborate better. Are you willing to do that? or Are you willing to give me feedback and call me out?

39:44.65
linda
when I get off track, because I'm really committed to this. And I think that that's, that's a way that you can do that. And I've seen people do it.

39:52.94
Betsy Hamm
That makes sense. Acknowledging it and then trying to take steps to stop doing whatever that behavior is.

39:57.64
linda
Mm hmm.

39:57.83
Betsy Hamm
I mean, it it won't be overnight, but over time people will realize that you've, you've changed and that's really important. Oh, this is awesome. Linda, thank you so much for being here and finally explaining Pi since I'd love to mention it so often. If people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

40:15.01
linda
They can find me at lmstrange at comcast.net. um i'm almost ah I'm also on LinkedIn, um Linda Strange. So feel free to reach out, ask questions, share your pie stories with me.

40:24.75
Betsy Hamm
Perfect.

40:28.36
linda
i'd Love to connect with you.

40:29.45
Betsy Hamm
Awesome. Thank you so much, Linda.

40:31.31
linda
Thanks, Betts. Take care.