Dress the Part, Lead the Room: Your Wardrobe is a Power Tool with Melanie Lippman

00:01.88
Betsy Hamm
Melanie Lipman, welcome to Loud and Lifted. Thank you so much for being here.

00:06.72
melanie
Thank you for having me.

00:09.17
Betsy Hamm
I'm so excited about this conversation, and I'm also very excited about your blue blazer, but we'll get into that in a minute because I want to read for our listeners to the best intro to you is your bio or headline on your LinkedIn.

00:22.39
Betsy Hamm
You weren't made to blend in. I help women and male-dominated industries ditch the corporate armor, build an unapologetic personal style brand that commands authority, power dressing, leadership presence.

00:34.58
Betsy Hamm
um That's amazing. How in the world did you get into this job?

00:39.41
melanie
ah So interestingly enough is I worked corporately for about 10 years. I was in the fine jewelry industry. And most people don't know that the fine jewelry industry is run by, you know, men in great hair gray hair and navy blue suits.

00:57.24
Betsy Hamm
Bye.

00:57.42
melanie
And even though I was born and raised in the fashion industry and was always obsessed with personal style and what was going on, I found myself in this place where I was dressing to prove. And I, so working in luxury, really high end, I was always the shortest woman in the room, usually the only woman in the room and typically the youngest person in the room.

01:22.21
melanie
And i would find myself before all of these major trade shows or major meetings in this like shopping frenzy. And my shopping frenzy was really expensive because I worked in luxury.

01:35.95
melanie
So like it included Chanel bags and like really, like I went into serious debt trying to look the part and that didn't feel good.

01:46.27
melanie
But not only did that not feel good, I had my boss one day, we were in a meeting, we were planning for our huge trade show every year. And she made this comment to me of like, nice, like clothes and all.

02:00.66
melanie
But why don't you try being more you? And I walked out of her office, like literally like the wind got knocked out of me. Because number one, I thought I was doing this really good performative job of wearing all the right things. And I was spending all of this money. And

02:22.86
melanie
the idea of why don't you be more you, like it really hit me because i I'm sure like most of us, I was in my mid-20s, like I didn't know who I was.

02:35.06
melanie
I thought I did like on paper and like but like every single thing that I thought did was probably my parents and society's idea when it came to like politics, religion, what I thought, what I ate, like who I was supposed to marry, like all of those things.

02:44.05
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

02:52.35
melanie
I didn't know who I was. So like the clothes and this thing that I thought I was being so self-expressive and someone saying to me, why don't you be more you? And I'm like, huh? Really? Like,

03:03.75
melanie
got me. So that's where like my journey to like figuring out who I was through my wardrobe really started. And I then you know, started to experiment and figured out what I liked.

03:15.99
melanie
And then i have a really amazing opportunity when my son was born. I tried staying in corporate and you know being at Fashion Week when your kid's taking his first steps is not really a fun thing.

03:27.44
melanie
So I took a step back from my corporate career and then found myself in my friend's closets putting together outfits. And then started working with women in male dominated fields and then had that whole situation happen all over again, where are these women were being very performative, dressing from the shoulds of this is what success looks like. And I'm like, this feels familiar.

03:53.36
melanie
So what I really realized is my mission in life is to show women how to be more to themselves in all aspects of their life, but through the lens of their wardrobe.

04:06.56
Betsy Hamm
I love that. and And you're right. I mean, pretty much all of us are in male dominated industries. So when you look around, what majority the wearing, we don't really want to wear but black suits or just white button down shirts. And when you're young, you're not really sure like how to balance that.

04:21.38
Betsy Hamm
Am I professional? Am I fitting in? I don't want to stand out too much. I'm just going to keep buying everything that's black. Seems very neutral. So when somebody comes to you, like what's the first step? How do you even go down this journey?

05:41.94
Betsy Hamm
right

05:42.11
melanie
Of really figuring out like, what makes me feel good? what ah What can I wear that activates something inside of my personality? um What is the things that excite me when it comes to showing up?

05:56.1904:35.26
melanie
So when we were all seven years old, we didn't give a crap what anyone thought of us, right? So if we like step into that energy of whatever you enjoyed, either a wearing or doing or a being,

04:50.34
melanie
I tap into that because what I found through this work, so besides being an an image coach and working in the wardrobe aspect, one of the other things that I did is I got a neurocoaching certification. So I realized that a lot of the way that we dress and the reason why women dress ah we took these roles in male-dominated fields is because very much in line with our behaviors of being a good girl and doing the right thing and six-sexies of this, so we need to prove ourselves and da-da-da-da.

05:17.32
melanie
So like the clothing probably was something that came up over and over again throughout our childhood, our upbringing, middle school, high school, our first job that we were always trying to square peg, round hole and prove.

05:22.14
Betsy Hamm
Sure. Right.

05:31.38
melanie
So my first step is to but help my clients figure out what they actually really like. Because they haven't taken, ah they haven't done that since they were seven.

melanie
What messages do I want to send? And you'll see all of these things are like, feeling things and who I be things, not anything to do with proving or what's expected of me. So I help them go back and figure out what about style or clothes. And sometimes we have to not even talk about clothes because it's so sensitive, just about aesthetic or what things or values you like to help them figure out who they are.

06:21.50
melanie
And then slowly in a way that feels safe, start to integrate parts of that into their wardrobe. So it doesn't feel like all of a sudden they're showing up as a different person or feeling like, is this too much? Is this a lot?

06:34.55
melanie
But really slowly integrating certain aspects of them um into their wardrobe and how they're showing up.

06:41.35
Betsy Hamm
That's so interesting going back to when you were little. And as you were saying that, I'm picturing my daughters who are teenagers, but when they were seven or probably even younger than that, the way that they like to dress up and show up was in the little Cinderella dresses and the costumes. And they put on these, you know, Disney character dresses and they were like unstoppable, their confidence level and and just their you know excitement to go out when Aaron's a target with a, you know, a Cinderella dress.

07:08.75
Betsy Hamm
So it's funny thinking back to that from their perspective. I can't really think about that quickly on my own, but just it was that how they showed up and how they felt. Now, teenagers are not rocking any Cinderella dresses.

07:18.75
melanie
No, but interestingly enough, a lot of the journey that happens within my clients that work in male dominated fields is finding their femininity.

07:18.88
Betsy Hamm
Oh.

07:29.63
melanie
Because if it's it they've been shown or thought or came up with this concept that being a female in a male-dominated world is not safe.

07:40.00
Betsy Hamm
Fair.

07:40.77
melanie
And so I need to cut parts of myself off to look and act like I belong in this room that wasn't potentially made for them, where I then you know get to show them and through conversations is that they're different leaders than their male counterparts.

07:40.95
Betsy Hamm
there

07:56.07
melanie
And how can they soften some of the things that they're wearing as opposed to leading with that aggression and that fierceness? and so not And this is why every single journey with all of my clients are different because this is not my idea.

08:09.42
melanie
It's their idea and I'm the guide.

08:10.46
Betsy Hamm
Right.

08:11.75
melanie
But a lot of what ah what my clients crave is being more feminine through their wardrobe. And it's interesting because most people have that princess play or this is what pretty, because again, ah message of you can't be both smart and pretty has been put into someone's mind is how do you be powerful and also feel like you can be either feminine or beautiful in a way that feels authentic to you?

08:29.56
Betsy Hamm
right

08:41.60
Betsy Hamm
And how do you balance, and I especially remember this when I was younger and I was in a very um conservative, I would say, work environment, you know, the whole like, oh, is my neckline too low? Is my skirt too short? Like, and I think that comes up a lot of times where then women get paranoid so that everything is like turtlenecks, long dresses or whatever it is. So how do you kind of balance that piece of the femininity of not feeling like, oh, therere these men are checking me out now because my skirt's too short?

09:06.67
melanie
I think that if you're thinking it, you're not doing it.

09:09.09
Betsy Hamm
Wow.

09:09.66
melanie
I always will say to my clients, they like, is this too much? And did I'm like, can you hand that over to me? Because the fact that you are concerned about meaning too much is you're overcorrecting.

09:17.87
Betsy Hamm
Interesting.

09:18.61
melanie
And you're probably doing it too much where there's clients that I have to be like, okay, we need to tone this down a little bit. So just know if you're thinking that, you probably don't know. to worry about it.

09:29.17
melanie
So people that aren't thinking about it, but it's all the the great thing is our clothes are sending all different types of messages.

09:36.27
melanie
So I will say like, what's, what's the one focus thing that you're going to be. So I know like in banking, like you can not wear a low like neckline, but your shirt could be, as your skirt could be as short as you want, but it's always like, it's like, let's pick the one thing.

09:49.50
Betsy Hamm
Interesting. Yep. yep

09:52.66
melanie
So it's really that focus on what's the thing that's going to be a little bit more feminine, not like I'm going to wear five inch heels and a low coat shirt and this and this and this. It's like, what's the one thing that's the softening?

10:02.49
Betsy Hamm
Right. That makes sense. So from, ah I know you work a lot with executives. So from like an executive, from a leadership standpoint, like what do you focus on with women to have them have that presence when they walk into the room and just sort of show up and have that confidence, but then also, again, just not wearing all the all black, boring clothing to so sort of stand out and own their own image? Yeah.

10:24.60
melanie
The first thing that we really do is discuss like what their values are and what they want to be known for. um Because your clothes are sending a message, whether you like it or not, before you even realize it. Like Princeton just did a study, like first impressions are now formed in one town.

10:40.77
melanie
10th of a second. When I like did my image coaching classes 10 years ago, it was 10 seconds.

10:42.39
Betsy Hamm
Wow. Oh.

10:46.44
melanie
you know You have seven to 10 seconds to make a first impression. But now with our lovely cell phones and you think about how we scroll through social media, that's the amount of time span that we have to decide

10:56.90
melanie
if this is someone that we want to pay attention to, or if we're going to go and look at her phone or be distracted by the 7,000 other things. So it's really about like, what is that first thing that I want people to think or feel about me when they interact with me, and then have your wardrobe represent that.

11:12.27
melanie
So a lot of my clients really want to come across as an authentic leader, or they want to come across to someone who is sophisticated, or someone who is very, very innovative. So we quickly will figure out what our those visual cues that we could make sure that their clothing is sending.

11:30.89
melanie
So that first step I would say is just to really know that your clothing is sending a message and like, what is that narrative that we want to have there? And the interesting thing that typically happens is I'll explain typically their, their narrative that they want is the opposite of wearing all black.

11:49.02
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, that makes sense.

11:49.55
melanie
Because wearing all black, so there's a reason why there's black tie weddings. There's a reason why judges wear black. Like judges wear all black because they're not supposed to have an opinion. There's black tie weddings because you're supposed to be on your best behavior.

12:01.20
melanie
Black puts up walls. Color creates connection.

12:04.69
Betsy Hamm
oh

12:05.26
melanie
So when you're kind of like, oh, I'm a leader that speaks about authenticity and really being in community and having conversations, but I'm not showing up as that person. They're like okay, cool. Now what do I do?

12:18.06
melanie
So it's really about like, what's that first thing? And then we really focus on that and then sort of iterate from there.

12:24.64
Betsy Hamm
I love that. And I'm 100% guilty. I definitely had a lot of black going on my closet. And one time I went to ah a local boutique and Margaret, we actually did an episode with her early on. And she was like, I picked out stuff and she's like, seriously, stop with your black.

12:38.38
Betsy Hamm
She was like, you're done. And then, you know, she was great. And she helped me to sort of ah get outside my comfort zone. And she picked up colors and clothes that I wouldn't have necessarily thought of. But then i was like, no, wait, yes, I like this. I feel comfortable in it.

12:51.57
Betsy Hamm
You know, just kind of was like we get so stuck and we find one style. Well, at least I do that. And then I'll just buy, you know, multiples of it. So sometimes it's having that outside perspective. It can be like, hi, what are you doing? Let's try this, you know, purple, this blue.

13:04.63
Betsy Hamm
um And I guess also part of that, too, is what colors look good on you. I know play into that. So it's like I think we just don't think about clothing um enough.

13:14.14
melanie
because you have a million other things to think about like it's kind of really interesting because the reason when I kind of will ask clients like how did we get to wearing all this black and it's normally like I need one less decision to make and when I start going into my closet and trying things on

13:16.78
Betsy Hamm
Right, right.

13:30.08
melanie
There's so much friction that it's easier to grab hold of that, but then knowing that it's not sending the right message. So what I help clients with is let's create your own brand. So let's make wearing the three colors be easier than picking out that black because you know how to wear the color. You know the emotions that the colorers are evoking. It actually is going to be easier for you to do that than to fall back into the black.

13:54.10
melanie
And then with also knowing this is the message that it's sending and this is who I am and what I want to be known for is also, um it's also baking it so it feels really methodical and specific so it doesn't feel like this like heavy thing.

14:13.15
Betsy Hamm
That's awesome. So just take your typical corporate businesswoman. um What do you splurge on and what what are bargain items? And life you're kind of like reset your closet.

14:24.32
Betsy Hamm
Like what's the system? Like how do even even approach that without, you know, going out and spending thousands of dollars to reset things?

14:29.38
melanie
Well, the first thing is that, so it's super, super interesting is most clients come to me and they're like, oh I have to throw away my whole entire closet. I hate it. did-dada But actually we you're not as bad as you think you are.

14:42.28
melanie
Like you usually know what colors look good on you. You may not always gravitate though towards them and black bees easier. And you also sort of have this concept of what flatters you. It's just, you haven't been doing it in a way that's strategic.

14:56.01
melanie
So it's like you buy one shirt and you always wear it with the same pants. You haven't been pushed out of it. So I would say the first step is always like, let's figure, let's just do the branding. And the way that I approach that with my clients is we do it from like, consider it done.

15:10.22
melanie
So like, what's your big audacious goal? How does that woman show up? So if you're like, you know what, I want to be in the C-suite or i want to be a professional speaker, or I want my boss's job, like,

15:21.96
melanie
How does she show up? Because she doesn't show up being reactive and twisting herself into a pretzel and um taking three hours to pack for a business trip. Like, let's paint the picture.

15:32.97
melanie
Let's put together what are the tangible things that are associated. Let's figure out in your closet what speaks to that and then where are the gaps. And so typically when I work with a client, they typically like are, let's say, 75% there.

15:48.24
melanie
I help figure out you know where are the you know big gaping holes and then what are the things that we need to be doing to elevate what they're already doing. So maybe it's like a power piece or something that feels like a little bit more statementy than they would typically wear or something that's tying it all together like a common thread.

16:07.28
melanie
So it's hard to say like these are the three things that you should have because that's where I feel like we end up with a closet full of white button downs and trench coats that none of us wear.

16:15.50
melanie
So um it really comes to like what, you know, where, what things am I utilizing and what things do I really need to enhance what I have that's sending that that right message.

16:28.48
Betsy Hamm
That makes sense. And maybe it was just my switch in industries. Like I said, it when I first, the first 15 years of my career was very like professional dress skirts and nylons and tights and all that fun stuff. And then um when I switched to the restaurant food industry and franchising, it was much more casual.

16:43.55
melanie
Mm-hmm.

16:43.53
Betsy Hamm
So making that shift to, and I think some of it's just kind of timing, right? Like I would have never wore jeans back in the day to work, but now that was acceptable. So when it comes to that, like a little bit more of a casual environment, how do you even a approach that? Like how do you, and business casual, nothing panics me more than when I see an invite to an event and it says business casual, you know, how do you, how do you approach that?

17:04.65
melanie
So the reason why business casual feels hard is because there is no real definition for it. Like it's, you know, guys have, you wear poles and a khaki or you wear this and that.

17:13.42
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

17:14.21
melanie
And for women, it's a little bit different. And then there's this like trying to compensate. But what the reason why it feels hard is that we feel that we feel complete in that formal.

17:24.12
Betsy Hamm
Hmm.

17:24.95
melanie
So like that feels polished, that feels sophisticated to us. When we go out of it, we feel frumpy and sloppy and that's the word or dated or matronly. And that's like the opposite of what we want to do.

17:33.26
Betsy Hamm
Sure. Hmm.

17:35.69
melanie
So we need to figure out what are your benchmarks for polish and pull together. So you could still feel like you are elevated and putting your best foot forward, even if you're wearing something that's a little bit more casual. And for each person, it's different. So some of my clients like really feel like their outfit is complete when maybe they are wearing a blazer, so they're going to wear jeans and a blazer.

17:58.83
melanie
Or maybe they feel like they're pulled together when everything's monochromatic or super coordinated, or they're wearing a nice handbag. and So it's also like a little bit of knowing what is those things that feel really polished.

18:12.20
melanie
The other way that I always say to approach business casual in a way that you feel like you're quote unquote wearing the right thing is through juxtaposition. So if you're someone who really likes wearing a blazer and that feels polished for you,

18:25.29
melanie
maybe you're going to pair it with either like tennis sneakers or you're to pair it with a t-shirt, you're going to pair it with jeans. Or if you're someone who's like you know what, I really like wearing heels, then like you could take off that third piece and wear the blouse. So I would say playing with formal versus informal is going to give a really nice balance in there.

18:44.26
Betsy Hamm
I like that. Yeah, sometimes i I definitely have done that because it's like, well, then it can go either way. if you're not really sure how other people are going to be dressed up and you don't want to feel like you're underdressed or overdressed, that's kind of a nice hybrid, I think, from an approach.

18:56.18
melanie
But here's the thing, and just not to call you out because it's what everyone else is wearing. it why We so care what everyone else is wearing because we're afraid we can get the memo and whatever.

19:03.57
Betsy Hamm
Oh, totally. Yeah. You're not calling me out. That's true.

19:34.8
019:07.36
melanie
But that's why I love the work that I do because when you have your own brand and your own aesthetic, you don't care what everyone else is wearing. You're wearing the right thing for you. So like I have clients that crave to be the most overdressed person in the room.

19:22.79
melanie
They're like, that is me. That is my brand. I am so polished. I am so this. I'm this fancy pants and I don't care. And if that bothers someone, that's their problem, not mine, but they've done the work to get there.

melanie
where someone would be, I'm so sorry that I'm wearing this.

19:34.79
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

19:40.20
melanie
And then you immediately take your power. And then I have other clients that are like, I don't give a crap. I'm wearing sneakers.

19:46.06
Betsy Hamm
Right. Right.

19:47.48
melanie
Like, and that is their brand.

19:47.40
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

19:49.56
melanie
Like, think about like Mel Robbins.

19:51.35
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

19:51.56
melanie
Mel Robbins got to the sneakers because she was standing on a stage and she was supposed to go speak on a stage and her heel broke and she went into a store. They did not have the right shoes for her. so she said, screw it.

20:04.06
melanie
I'm wearing sneakers on the stage.

20:06.09
Betsy Hamm
That's awesome.

20:06.45
melanie
And that became her brand.

20:07.73
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. With anybody who's stood on a stage, you know you want comfortable shoes on to begin with because standing in one spot for a long time is the wrong shoes on is literally torture.

20:16.95
melanie
Right.

20:16.92
Betsy Hamm
That's so funny.

20:17.69
melanie
Exactly. So like be be you, because here's what ends up happening. If you were dressing for someone else's standard, you're in a room that you probably don't want to be in.

20:25.70
Betsy Hamm
Hmm.

20:26.16
melanie
Like clothes are a magnet. Have your people find you. If you are like love leopard and all of that stuff, your leopard ladies are going to go find you. It's like I used to do this all of the time. I remember having this internal dialogue with me. i was going to speak at a law firm and I have this like leopard pink blazer and I had it on and I took it off. And I'm like, if they're not going to take me seriously,

20:47.72
melanie
because they are a white glove law firm, because I'm wearing a leopard blazer, then they're not goingnna listen to a word that I'm saying anyway, and I'm not meant for them, and I'm not here to go find them another navy blue suit.

20:59.03
melanie
So let them have them log off of this before it even starts.

21:06.53
melanie
Let's set the standard.

21:08.37
Betsy Hamm
This is who I am. I love that so much. That's so true. and And you're right. I think I've gotten better that with age and even probably as I had higher positions. But man, I remember that at beginning being so panicked about being dressed wrong, like in those situations.

21:20.55
melanie
Because we were shamed.

21:21.26
Betsy Hamm
So, yeah.

21:22.64
melanie
Someone was shamed at some point in time. course

21:25.96
melanie
Not us, but someone around us. So we didn't anything.

21:27.57
Betsy Hamm
And there's nothing worse than when you wore an outfit that you thought was good, but you're just not comfortable in it. Like you felt like you're doing it to fit in and whether it's not your style, maybe it was too big, too tight, whatever. Like there's nothing worse than that feeling of just sitting there and not being confident because you're uncomfortable. Like it just, you don't feel right.

21:43.94
Betsy Hamm
So yeah let's, let's avoid that as much as possible. So speaking of casual, I want to also talk about, this is obviously branding and presence is just, ah and how you show up. Let's talk about virtual meetings, because I think that obviously over the last, what, five years we're up to where that has become so commonplace.

21:56.28
melanie
Mm-hmm.

22:01.91
Betsy Hamm
And, you know, I remember early on in the COVID days and even after ah people would show up for meetings, like, not the way they'd show up to work, right? Like ponytail on top your head, hot mess, like sweatshirt, hoodie, like just not how you would show up in the office. And it was kind of like, okay, how do we handle this? Right. Don't I be like, dude, show up to work. Like you show up at the office.

22:24.69
Betsy Hamm
Like how, if we want to have that good brand and that good presence, even through all the virtual meetings that many of us sit through, what's your recommendation for that?

22:33.44
melanie
it's It's funny, I just saw, I reposted something on LinkedIn, a woman hired fired someone because they were wearing a hoodie. um And it wasn't, it was, they had multiple warnings and it was just sort of a like, it was the straw that wo the ca broke the camel's back.

22:48.58
melanie
But here's the thing we all need to realize, the most important person we get dressed for is ourselves. is that going through that process of figuring out what you need to happen throughout the day, how you're going to show up as your best version of yourself, like do it for you, like put perfume on, wear shoes, like go and play full out.

23:07.20
melanie
um And then the other thing also besides doing it for you is that you – if you were someone who only goes into the office maybe once or twice a week or once a quarter, like this is your FaceTime and this is your showing someone that I am coming here and i' I have a full day's worth of work.

23:27.08
melanie
If you look like you didn't take a shower, like people are going to think that you literally were playing with your kids two seconds before you hopped on that call.

23:29.62
Betsy Hamm
ah Right. Yep.

23:34.79
melanie
So really being like I'm using my wardrobe to show people that I'm taking serious. like I'm telling myself that I'm taking myself seriously. And I'm not saying you need to go sit in your house in a blazer, but that just means like being polished and refined and also having that presence that you really are wanting to take up space and really being someone who, um you know, is coming to work and also being more magnetic.

23:59.05
melanie
So think simple things like I have a few clients that what we do is we have like a few go-to Zoom outfits.

23:59.64
Betsy Hamm
Right.

24:06.41
melanie
that they feel good. We know that they like look good on camera, so they're like in good colors because you think wearing black in person is bad. Wearing black on a camera is the worst thing. You look like you got absolutely no sleep.

24:17.68
melanie
um So wearing maybe like a jewel tone. um If you are wearing a print, making sure that it's like a bolder print, you can get someone real dizzy real quick by wearing a polka dot or something and has some weird stripes.

24:29.09
melanie
um And just being really specific about like your necklines. Like you could look real naked real fast if you're wearing V-neck.

24:32.04
Betsy Hamm
Right? right

24:35.54
melanie
So just kind of those three things is like color, print, neckline. like though Like just thinking about those before hopping on a Zoom is going to really solidify and have more of a presence um for your your virtual wardrobe.

24:48.50
Betsy Hamm
That makes sense. And lighting too, right? I think that's such a big piece of it. I, as I said, it makes me look a little lighter and brighter. i think it's important that, you know, I look like I'm awake and paying attention, whether it's recording a podcast or on meeting. I think it's just feeling that you're here and present. You don't want to give people the impression that you're just disengaged or it's not important. I think that's the balance.

25:09.40
melanie
right

25:10.30
Betsy Hamm
And it's funny too, because now that I work 100% home, I'm like, some days if I don't have any calls, I definitely am like super casual. But then I feel like I'm sitting there in my hoodie and my you know yoga pants and I don't feel as, I don't know, professional or I'm not sure.

25:24.76
Betsy Hamm
Like I feel like if I get a little bit more dressed up because I have to leave the house, then I feel like I'm more in my mode. And that's just me. Everyone's different.

25:30.86
melanie
No, but there's studies done that if you go and go through the motions of of getting dressed and putting your clothes on, that you perform better.

25:39.30
melanie
You're going to ask the harder question. Like we act, like people don't realize this, like clothes are the only physical form of like manifestation. Like we've all heard like dress for the job that you want, not the job that you have, but no, like it's not performative. It's like I'm taking myself seriously. I've taken the time to pick my clothes in and feel good about myself. If you've gone through that process in the morning of like, I am someone who, you know, works hard, who takes myself seriously.

26:07.59
melanie
When you're having a difficult conversation with a colleague, you're going to do the thing that feels much more aligned with you if you're not in sweatpants.

26:15.57
Betsy Hamm
That makes sense. Okay, good. Then ah I'm not just making that up. All right. So tell me about your style code.

26:22.47
melanie
Yes. So the style code really is just your own personal brand for getting dressed. So it really is like, it feels like getting dressed is all, all over the place.

26:37.08
melanie
um And this is really a methodology for you to know what to wear in each and every situation um and that you're wearing the quote unquote right thing for you. So it's going through the process of like, what makes me feel confident in my clothes?

26:50.32
melanie
Well, colors do I wear? What fits and flatters me? What are my outfit formulas? And then also just knowing like I'm speaking on a stage, I'm wearing this, I'm doing a Zoom call, this is what I'm wearing. It takes that like friction out of what to put on for those things and just know that you're wearing the right thing in each and every situation.

27:08.50
Betsy Hamm
I love that because i let's count how many times I sit in my closet and be like, what am I going to wear What do I want to deal with? Like you just kind of get stuck in these ruts of not knowing what to grab or I just grab the same three things sometimes too. So it's kind of balancing that.

27:21.82
melanie
Or saying that your closet, that I have nothing in my closet and I need to go shopping. That's the other one is like, we need to figure out a system to make our closet work for us because you've spent enough money.

27:26.43
Betsy Hamm
Right.

27:31.94
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

27:32.47
melanie
um And then when you do go shopping, it should be something to enhance and elevate, not just buy the same thing that you already own and, you know, a different, not different. It's really just the same thing.

27:43.09
melanie
Let's be real.

27:43.31
Betsy Hamm
Right. So how much do we let trends influence what we buy from season to season professionally?

27:49.10
melanie
Um, not sort of zero, but when you know what your style code is and how you add interest, you can quickly look at something and be like, Ooh, that feels like part of my brand or I'm excited about that. Or this is how I would do it, bring it in. i think the reason why trends exist in like, I went to, so this is what I went to school for. I went to school for fashion merchandising.

28:10.80
melanie
And the reason why trends exist is that, so every, you know, 15 days we could so be selling something, someone different and it keeps you on this hamster wheel in there.

28:16.82
Betsy Hamm
Mm-hmm.

28:18.90
melanie
But when you have a strong sense of self, you aren't being like swayed. I need to wear boy lime green pants tomorrow sort of thing. So once you have that, you could be like, oh, that feels like that would be something I'm intrigued by.

28:32.88
melanie
Because the way that trends work is you see them five to seven times and then there's a FOMO of I don't own it. because it makes you feel familiar to you really, really quickly. And then it's like, oh, I'm not part of the trend.

28:43.48
melanie
But once you have this internal dialogue to be like, oh, I really like that color, or that's never going to look good on me. It's a very quick cutter drive. I think the women that I work with, they don't want to look dated.

28:55.95
melanie
They want look up to date and current.

28:56.14
Betsy Hamm
sure. sure

28:58.19
melanie
So it's a way to like, how do we add things to our wardrobe that we can wear for a few seasons, but are a little bit more through the lens of like updating than trendy.

29:09.61
melanie
um And that's where I think that it's either like, let's buy something from Zara because you know what, I'm going to buy it and I'm going to go through it real quick, but I have all five things coming up. I'm going to wear it. Or like, you know what? Like I actually really like this and it isn't a color that I would enjoy wearing.

29:24.70
melanie
Maybe I will bit buy $200 blazer it.

29:27.88
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, that makes sense. Is there any pattern or texture that you think is just underused by senior women?

29:35.29
melanie
i like I love leather.

29:37.98
Betsy Hamm
Oh.

29:39.21
melanie
And it's I know it's like a lot of times, like my clients are like, like they get a little bit like, I don't know. But i do like, they're like, I can't wear leather.

29:46.06
Betsy Hamm
Like, am I going clubbing?

29:49.26
melanie
That's not allowed. and But it can be wear it in such like a sophisticated way. And I love the way that leather is forgiving, but also has some great structure to it. So like, I love a leather blazer or I love a leather pencil skirt.

30:02.07
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

30:04.17
melanie
To me, most of my clients are like, um, in like automotive or an aerospace industries. Like they're in like very technological, like innovative spaces.

30:16.83
melanie
So having that, like, interest in there like shows like oh I know what's going on um and so I I personally think that it's underutilized I also think that um like so things that are like self and are a little bit more feminine are a great way to add like some interest in there um and I'm always a fan of like tweed because I like the being able to have multiple colors in something and really like I feel like

30:45.05
melanie
there's certain like blazers you could wear like 15 different ways because of the few different colors that are that are in there but not like old lady tweed like right

30:53.25
Betsy Hamm
The new cooler tweed. I know what you mean. do have those. Yes, I have one of those blazers. Is there any items that you think instantly level up authority for women?

31:04.20
melanie
um I think that wearing things monochromatic and not being and not feeling like you always have to wear that blazer.

31:15.18
melanie
Like I think women feel like blazer security blanket. So I would say if you could find ways to feel like you have a complete outfit without necessarily that third piece, sure. If you're leading a meeting, like that's your power piece, wear it.

31:28.91
melanie
But I would say like the monochromatic or like colored pants, because that's another huge thing that maybe you've launched, branched out from the black when it comes to a top.

31:39.72
melanie
but you're so dead set on your black pants. So like one of and other things that I quickly do with my clients is like, let's get some burgundy pants. Let's have some Hunter green pants.

31:48.26
Betsy Hamm
Right.

31:48.97
melanie
Like this season, like Brown is really, really big. Like, so like to kind of start introducing some colors in some other ways, I think is a really strong, powerful look.

32:00.40
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh, this is so good. Melanie, this has been so awesome. So if people want to connect with you and work on their brand and their image and how to show up, how can they find out more?

32:09.88
melanie
Yes. So I am on all the places. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. I am on TikTok. um And um I will send you over. I have a free masterclass that really walks you through that style code um of really figuring out what are those key components and how to figure them out for yourself.

32:19.89
Betsy Hamm
Awesome.

32:28.07
melanie
um And the one thing that I know about all of this work is like definitely go check out the masterclass. It is amazing. However, having someone walk you through this process and stretching you is more powerful than you ever realized because there is enough information on TikTok, on YouTube, whatever thing. You could all figure this out yourself.

32:48.90
melanie
Like is this is not like if you wanted to, but you need the implementation and the tweaking and the feedback and making it you. And the the all of the information is actually really overwhelming.

33:00.34
melanie
You need the right information for you in a way that feels a little stretchy, but not too scary. And that's really where I come in and I do like those little like baby steps and that like accountability and like, let's try this next, let's try this next.

33:09.86
Betsy Hamm
Right.

33:13.46
melanie
And that is really that beautiful process of you finding yourself through your style.

33:18.73
Betsy Hamm
I love that. And I think there's so many things that we get too close to. And this is one of them. I think you're too close to it. you' You're too in your closet. You need that outside perspective. Someone who at least helps you make you or make you take a step back and like, okay, let's look at this from a different perspective.

33:30.04
melanie
right who By the way, women are so self-critical.

33:33.14
Betsy Hamm
totally.

33:33.27
melanie
Like you are so, like, I'll have a client and they're literally going on and on.

33:33.60
Betsy Hamm
Totally.

33:37.11
melanie
And I'm like, I don't notice your stomach. I'm like, I'm saying this with so much love, but you've just went on for three minutes about your stomach and I don't see it.

33:41.78
Betsy Hamm
Right.

33:48.94
melanie
No one is looking at it.

33:49.24
Betsy Hamm
So true. Yep.

33:50.88
melanie
a

33:51.06
Betsy Hamm
So true. it's we get We are very critical. that's That's so good. Well, thank you so much for being here. We'll link everything on our website. And this makes me want to go check out my closet and give you a call.

34:01.47
melanie
My pleasure.

34:02.80
Betsy Hamm
Thank you.