Lift As You Climb: Trailblazing with Kim Schaller

00:01.70
Betsy Hamm
Welcome to Loud and Lifted, the podcast where we turn up the volume on women supporting women. I'm your host, Betsy Hamm, and I am especially excited about today's episode. Not only is this our very first guest, but this is a guest of someone who shaped my journey in the very beginning of my career over 20 some years ago.

00:20.79
Betsy Hamm
She's a mentor, a role model, and a true rock star, the incredible Kim Schaller.

00:25.66
Betsy Hamm
Kim is... Oh, wait, I got more of an intro for you. Kim Schaller.

00:29.14
kim
I'm sorry.

00:30.01
Betsy Hamm
No, no, you're good. Kim is a brand building, revenue driving, marketing powerhouse with over 25 years of experience across entertainment, hospitality, and travel. She spent 17 years on the executive committee senior leadership level of a legacy rich company leading growth strategy, customer experience, employee engagement, and shareholder value.

00:49.17
Betsy Hamm
Kim was the first and only female vice president at her company during her tenure. And while she was trailblazing her own path, she was just as intentional about clearing the way for others. Long before women in leadership was trending, Kim was creating a space, starting the conversation and doing the real work to help women rise.

01:06.73
Betsy Hamm
So buckle up. This episode is about grit, growth, and what it truly means to lift others as you climb. So let's get loud and lifted with the one and only Kim Schaller.

01:16.50
kim
I love that.

01:17.09
Betsy Hamm
feel like I need clapping. yeah I didn't run that by you ahead of time. So, you know, hopefully you're good with that intro.

01:20.97
kim
Now that was fantastic. Geez. I know.

01:23.91
Betsy Hamm
No, Kim, thank you for being here.

01:24.06
kim
Yeah.

01:25.11
Betsy Hamm
and And as I said, it's only fitting to start with you um because you were there at the start of my career and really helped form what I thought about women in leadership and and were the true icon back in the day.

01:35.58
Betsy Hamm
So let's go back like 20 some years, right, to the beginning of at least my relationship of when I knew you and being the first vice president, or sorry, the first woman vice president, actually the first vice president of marketing too, which is a whole other

01:38.12
kim
Wow.

01:48.74
Betsy Hamm
conversation, but take us back to that time and and how you handled that and just sort of where where you were at that time.

01:55.08
kim
Oh my God, I'm so honored. I'm so honored. And I'm so proud of you. Oh my God, you're like a shining star in my my life.

02:01.36
Betsy Hamm
Oh, thank you. Oh,

02:05.12
kim
You really are. thank

02:06.23
Betsy Hamm
thank you.

02:06.93
kim
And I think, which we'll touch on, like and it wasn't always easy with us. And that's what even looks easy.

02:10.76
Betsy Hamm
No.

02:12.11
kim
more enduring. you Women relationships aren't always that we're lockstep all along the way. it We had some times, but bottom line is I'm here. I live in Scottsdale, Arizona.

02:23.81
kim
I moved to Scottsdale, um but I was with HGNR, Hershey Entertainment Resorts, for 31 years.

02:24.23
Betsy Hamm
Thanks.

02:30.21
kim
And I was thinking back on this, Betsy, because I was there. I started in 85, which is crazy. which is um and our advertising coordinator for Hershey Park. And I was there for 10 years doing every job imaginable in the marketing area. I just would raise my hand for anything, any assignment I did, worked my ass off.

02:50.37
kim
um And then I got recruited to Space Center Houston in Houston to be director of marketing there. And let that entire 10 years at HENR, there was never any women's. There was never any women's programs.

03:03.01
kim
So when I left, I was there for three years and I got a call about potentially coming back to HENR in a brand new role to oversee sales and marketing for the whole company.

03:13.96
kim
So I came back, which was amazing. I came back and then I was there for another 21 years. But one of the things about coming back, I felt when I got back, like women in the organization were so thirsty for programming around communication skills and work-life balance and exposure. And so I decided going going to try to develop a program to really develop women. And I told you this the other day, the irony was it was really to help benefit me too. Because every room I sat in, every meeting I it was all men and me.

03:54.73
kim
And I knew i needed to develop my own skills in terms of how to deal with men. So I created this program that was beneficial. I'm such an ass.

04:05.55
kim
That was beneficial to me as well as to the other women in the organization.

04:11.41
Betsy Hamm
That's not being selfish, though, because, again, you were worried about other women, too, and the fact that you shouldn't be the only one in the room.

04:17.83
kim
Right.

04:17.99
Betsy Hamm
So when you first brought that up, how how was that received? What was the feedback from

04:22.06
kim
Well, that was a total, I totally fucked that up. oh i so I scheduled a meeting with Scott Newcomb, God rest his soul, who was the CEO at the time, who has since passed, truly a mentor of mine.

04:35.45
kim
And I have to tell you, men have been incredibly supportive of me throughout my entire career. So I love, I really do love men and the relationships that I've had.

04:47.43
kim
So I got all ready and Scott was a finance guy. So I put all this data together on, you know, our workforce, the percentage of women in leadership positions, the cop percentages.

04:59.09
kim
And I went into Scott and honest to God, if you could like visualize it, it was like my fists were clenched and you know how I can be like,

05:07.88
Betsy Hamm
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Were you pointing also? Because you like to point.

05:10.14
kim
I was pointing and swinging my eyes.

05:10.47
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

05:13.45
kim
And I said, we need to have a program to really enable women to true leadership. We need to be treated as equals. I went in there more ah militant.

05:24.88
kim
And I threw all this data at him and he was sitting there and God love him. He looked at me and he said, I want to continue this conversation, but you need to go back and talk about goals, talk about how is this going to help the organization? How are we going to be able to retain and recruit and professional development? You need to get off your high horse.

05:46.38
kim
And I walked out of there with my tail between my legs. I truly did. But he was right. And I think for any women out there listening to this, you've got to monitor and watch your approach.

05:57.08
kim
If you're trying to build consensus and trying to get people all on the same side, you can't go in there. You can't in there.

06:03.68
Betsy Hamm
A little emotional.

06:05.04
kim
Yeah. and So anyway, it was a great lesson and I did. And then honestly, for the program started in 2003 and it went on. ah you know, I don't know how robust it is now, but when I left in 2015, the program was incredible because it was not only HENR, but we scooped in the med center, the chocolate company, the school. So we formed this Women of Hershey, which was just amazing.

06:32.97
kim
So that's really one of my proudest things is kind of collaborating with the other Hershey interests to build this.

06:36.12
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely.

06:41.14
Betsy Hamm
So besides the fact that you didn't want to be alone, what were some of the goals that you were going to, at least in your own head, I get that you put together, you know, probably something a little different that you shared with the leadership at Hershey at the time, but like, what were your goals?

06:53.26
Betsy Hamm
How are you going to identify success for this org for this group?

06:56.06
kim
Right.

06:57.52
Betsy Hamm
Um, as it went on through the years.

06:57.91
kim
yeah

06:58.76
Betsy Hamm
so

06:59.97
kim
I think, you know, you start with at the time we had 25 percent of women in the on the managers list, which is that you know the highest level in the organization managers list. There was only 25 percent. So my goal was always to be at least 50 percent.

07:13.81
kim
um And on the executive team, you know, and again, I'm sorry, I don't even know what the number is today, but I do know that, oh, it's absolutely better.

07:19.48
Betsy Hamm
It's better, definitely. Yeah.

07:23.13
kim
um I wanted women to feel like they had a voice. I wanted women to survive and thrive in a very male-dominated organization. um yeah Hershey is a very paternalistic organization, so there is no denying that.

07:38.00
kim
It's male-dominated and it's finance-dominated.

07:41.32
Betsy Hamm
Mm-hmm.

07:41.61
kim
And here I am, a woman marketer. I had like, and there was like everything working against me at the time, but you know I really was determined. I wanted women to feel that they had a place where they could feel safe.

07:56.11
kim
um And we had annual you know we had monthly meetings and annual conferences and the men used to wonder, goes on in those meetings. I think they thought we had like secret handshakes.

08:07.00
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

08:07.12
kim
and But the reality is, and I would invite them. I said, you are welcome to it.

08:10.87
Betsy Hamm
Yep.

08:12.20
kim
And some did. You're welcome to attend any, anytime you want to. So I don't,

08:18.28
Betsy Hamm
Well, and I think some of them thought there was like a, it was male bashing, right? But it wasn't about them.

08:22.12
kim
um

08:22.16
Betsy Hamm
We weren't talking about men. It was, they were never the topic of conversation.

08:26.28
kim
I don't care. Like but go form your own group.

08:29.80
Betsy Hamm
They have their boys club. Yeah.

08:30.86
kim
um

08:31.39
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

08:31.52
kim
You know, I mean, we women, we show up to work with so many different issues than men show up to work with.

08:31.76
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

08:38.22
kim
So we needed to find a place where we could share and vent about being working moms, about taking care of elderly parents, about, I mean, we just needed a safe space to do all that.

08:50.64
kim
We're different.

08:51.01
Betsy Hamm
Right.

08:51.56
kim
Like, we're different. And that's all there is to it.

08:53.91
Betsy Hamm
We are. That's, that's a hundred percent.

08:55.34
kim
And let's celebrate that.

08:56.66
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. Absolutely.

08:57.63
kim
Yeah. Yeah.

08:58.50
Betsy Hamm
Well, and you know,

08:58.71
kim
Well, know, Betsy, let me ask you, because you were a woman in the organization. How did the program benefit you?

09:06.41
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, you know, absolutely. i think I looked around and knew that you were the only one right at the top. So that kind of sticks in your head as a 22 year old where you're like, wow, why is there one woman in a leadership role?

09:18.90
Betsy Hamm
But I love that you had the voice behind that. And, you know, we're cheerleading and cheerleading and bringing everyone along with you. But I think with that women in leadership group was it was it was twofold. One was like the networking and the relationships. I got to meet people in the company outside of marketing because I might have only known the marketing ladies and the people I dealt with at the the park were mostly men. Right. So and there was plenty of ah women across the organization. So I think just networking, meeting those women that then if I happen to walk into a room that they're in, I'm i'm going to feel comfortable because I talk to that.

09:49.00
Betsy Hamm
woman I've had a conversation, I know she has kids or whatever. So I think the networking piece that was huge, but there was a lot of professional development stuff that we did that I, that I still use today.

09:59.19
Betsy Hamm
And some of it was around communication and how we're different and and like that emotional intelligence, because women tend to be stronger at that.

10:05.00
kim
Right.

10:06.15
Betsy Hamm
and

10:06.85
kim
Right.

10:07.06
Betsy Hamm
Um, we're talking about like the pie, right? That's definitely a future episode of, it's not just your performance, but it's your image and what people say when you're not in the room and it's the exposure and who knows that you exist.

10:09.82
kim
Oh, yeah.

10:18.14
Betsy Hamm
So, you know, there was a lot of professional development pieces that I think were just so important that where else would you have gotten that? Like there wasn't, there was no other place to do that.

10:26.11
kim
Right.

10:27.86
Betsy Hamm
You know, back then there wasn't, you know, a million, um, social influencers or there wasn't, you know, podcast or there were those kinds of opportunities to educate yourself.

10:34.63
kim
power

10:36.51
Betsy Hamm
So it was, you had to be educated with where you were and we, you know, had that opportunity to have that.

10:40.40
kim
Great.

10:42.59
Betsy Hamm
So yes, that's why you're here today.

10:43.44
kim
Oh, good. See, so mean, it's, you're the, you're the proof of the benefit, you know, because I don't know.

10:50.53
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

10:51.97
kim
All I know is I freaking loved it. I loved it.

10:54.97
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

10:55.63
kim
I loved every minute of it. I loved creating the content. We had an external partner with Linda Strange that helped us put it together and, And I'll tell you, HENR, they gave me the money to do it.

11:06.31
kim
They allowed me the time to do it. um And then we created an an administrative professionals group as well, because those, and you know again, they were all working for the men in the organization.

11:17.28
kim
Boy, did they ever need development.

11:17.56
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

11:19.83
kim
So it was just, I loved it.

11:20.32
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

11:22.79
kim
And Annette, who was my assistant, was just, you know, she helped, she held it all together. so

11:28.06
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, that's awesome.

11:29.13
kim
But I can remember, Betsy, because that help you bring up exposure.

11:29.48
Betsy Hamm
Nice.

11:32.48
kim
We would have women going, I don't know why i don't get the attention. i don't know why I don't get opportunities. And we would go to like, if we had meetings where the executive team was there, and I would watch them.

11:43.37
kim
They wouldn't even go and interact with the executive team. And I would come up to them afterwards and go, you want exposure? You totally had the chance. And you sat with your group of friends and didn't even interact. So I was i could really be...

11:58.95
kim
i could really be a bitch about that kind of thing. And I know there were some people that didn't like my approach, but if you're going to say you want it you got to do what it takes to get it

12:01.77
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

12:09.34
kim
so

12:09.42
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. That exposure piece is huge. for I 100% agree with that. But let's let's talk about your reputation, right? so

12:17.96
Betsy Hamm
So you, you know, you had a reputation of being a powerhouse and lovingly a hard ass. So, you know, how much of that hard ass approach was you, right?

12:28.01
Betsy Hamm
Or how much of that did you have to sort of change and evolve because you're in this male dominated world where you couldn't be, you know, sort of passive and laid back that you had to have that more aggressive approach.

12:38.24
Betsy Hamm
So, and how do people take that as a woman versus if you were a man doing that? How did, how did that go through your career?

12:42.88
kim
Yeah. Oh my God, I think every time I would ever go and speak or do anything, people would say, you know, what's the difference between, you know, just being aggressive and ambitious?

12:54.30
kim
That's just it ambition and ah bitch are like just, they seem to go hand in hand. um And I think I always, my biggest thing was I always wanted to support other women.

13:06.01
kim
And I think that's one of the things when I look around at women that have achieved and I see that they haven't supported other women, That to me is just, I would take that so personally. And maybe you would think, oh, yeah, Kim, she's a badass. But there would be times where I was like crumbling on the inside. But I really took it seriously that when you walk through those doors in the morning, no matter what's going on in your outside world, you have to It's a performance.

13:37.30
kim
I mean, I'm sorry, but when you're in a corporate world, if you're an entrepreneur and start your own business, you don't have to perform.

13:37.29
Betsy Hamm
Sure. Oh, absolutely. It is.

13:43.64
kim
i But in a corporate environment, performance is necessary, especially being a woman. So I would be super sad or stressed on the inside, but just trying to kind of come in.

13:57.90
kim
But like people like you, the closer you and I got, like I could go into your office and go, oh my God, I'm dying. You know what I mean?

14:05.90
Betsy Hamm
Right.

14:06.05
kim
i I had people that I could let my hair down with.

14:10.66
Betsy Hamm
Sure.

14:11.52
kim
You know, so ah you try to stay stoic, but it was that was always hard. But I was ambitious.

14:17.44
Betsy Hamm
So do you have any, do you have any tips for that?

14:18.71
kim
I...

14:19.86
Betsy Hamm
How, how do you stay? Cause you know, everybody is to your point, balancing so much with, you know, whether it's kids or aging parents or health issues, like how do you show up and still be authentic, but also be able to continue to, to move forward and do your job?

14:33.24
kim
yeah I would tell other women, you never know what a fellow call woman colleague is coming in to work with. You never know. So please let's just, how do we treat each other with respect and give each other a break? Cause you never know.

14:47.62
kim
Like I know i can't go and change women. are just not nice to each other and don't support each other. And whether it's from grade school all the way through, I'm living in this community now, you know, and we're all at a stage of our life where we're, you know, things are good.

15:06.92
kim
I live in a 55 plus community where people golf and play tennis, and but there are cliques of women that form that,

15:14.19
Betsy Hamm
No, don't tell me it doesn't change.

15:15.01
kim
regard They're snarky and bitchy and they have an attitude. And so I have just, you know, I just, just, I just stay away. And the older I've gotten, the more I've removed toxic relationships from my life because it's just not worth it.

15:31.64
Betsy Hamm
right

15:31.99
kim
So I would say to people, if you're in a profession, you have to deal with people. So just go in and just put your best foot forward and don't let personal enter into it. And that's the hardest thing, advice to give to a woman because we cannot help but letting personal enter into it.

15:49.06
kim
I have been devastated by other women through my career. Just other women have, I've felt so let down. I felt betrayed. And that's the worst thing.

16:01.18
Betsy Hamm
Oh, absolutely.

16:02.25
kim
it was the It was way more than being betrayed because I don't think men, don't think they do that. You know, I don't, I don't think they have betrayal or jealousy or envy or the way that women do.

16:15.30
kim
Do you?

16:16.54
Betsy Hamm
No, and I think part of it too maybe is like the emotional connection because I think of like during your career, right, and especially when you're in a position of of influence, right, and leadership and and people who maybe are around you, i don't want to say below you, but like at a lower level, they – feel like they can benefit from your relationship. But then when you're not in that position, and I just have gone through this, you know, like being at a CEO level and then leaving who you hear from and who you don't after you're not in that role is, you know, I i take it personally, like, Oh, I can't believe I haven't talked to this person. I can't believe i haven't reached out. Or if you text, they don't respond, whatever it is. It's like, Oh, I guess that relationship was transactional or professional, whatever you want to call it. And I

16:58.85
Betsy Hamm
Well, I tend to have more of like wanting that emotional connection and like a real relationship. And then you're like, oh, shit, that was, guess that's not real. Guess they're not really, you know, not that we were hanging out in the weekend kind of friends, but like having that friendly type of relationship.

17:12.15
Betsy Hamm
So I don't know if you've had that happen to you too through the years.

17:14.75
kim
Oh my God, absolutely. And it's devastating. And your word transactional is exactly right. I didn't think things were just transactional. I thought we were, thought we were friends, not like, let's go over to each other's house and over.

17:24.67
Betsy Hamm
Right.

17:30.21
Betsy Hamm
Right. Absolutely. Yeah.

17:31.93
kim
I didn't even socialize with them, but if I went on a business lunch with them, oh my God, we talked about kids.

17:33.87
Betsy Hamm
Right.

17:37.79
kim
We talked about life. We talked about dreams. And I mean, we talked about everything. And then when I left, to never hear from them, ah it was just so, it's it's it's devastating.

17:50.80
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

17:51.08
kim
I mean, it's just a devastating thing to realize that you were really just a through way to a business opportunity.

17:58.76
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yeah.

17:59.58
kim
that And maybe that, I don't know that that hurts men's feelings the way that it hurts.

18:03.45
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, I don't know. That would be interesting find out.

18:05.99
kim
But I don't ever want to change that about us.

18:06.00
Betsy Hamm
No. Right.

18:08.39
kim
I can't, that's what makes us amazing.

18:08.44
Betsy Hamm
no

18:12.67
kim
Like, I don't want to change that about me. I love that I have that capacity to care about other people.

18:15.67
Betsy Hamm
right

18:21.03
Betsy Hamm
right

18:21.14
kim
No. And I can't give any advice for anybody other than to just suck it up. It's what makes us women and it what makes us different. And it's what I value most in other women. I don't know. where I've had so much shit happen in my life.

18:36.30
kim
I don't know where I would be without the other women in my life.

18:39.98
Betsy Hamm
nice

18:40.01
kim
I don't. I mean, I had a terrible, my husband was a terrible addicted to drugs and alcohol, and he's actually dead now as a result of that. A teenage daughter that lived through all that, all while I was working and building my career.

18:53.98
kim
If it wasn't for the women in my life, I don't know what I would have done.

18:57.86
Betsy Hamm
oh

18:58.09
kim
Seriously. I love, I love the women in my world. And again, you worked with me, like all that stuff was going on while I would come in and be like, hi, everybody.

19:03.85
Betsy Hamm
Right. Well,

19:08.60
Betsy Hamm
Oh yeah. Miss cheerleader. Yeah. Yeah.

19:10.52
kim
and

19:10.60
Betsy Hamm
That's, that's what's amazing knowing what I know now, or even, you know, through the years, it's, it's the fact that you showed up and you have a great big presence that's full of energy and optimism and such a cheerleader and who knows what was going on in your day.

19:25.39
Betsy Hamm
And you'd come rolling in the office, like, good morning, good morning, good morning. like, I mean, just on fire, like it was the best thing ever that you were at work that day and that you were just so happy to be there. So, you know, it's, you always showed up and you always brought that energy and enthusiasm and you still have that and the optimism um that you need and leadership roles because everyone's looking at you.

19:45.04
Betsy Hamm
And even when, you know, if we were having a bad year, things were difficult, even professionally, you know, things were a struggle, of course, as any business goes through, um you still kept that optimism. was like, okay, let's solve this.

19:55.60
Betsy Hamm
Let's fix this. But, you know, you weren't sitting in or curled up crying that, you know, nobody's coming or what are we going to do?

19:59.64
kim
oh

20:01.79
Betsy Hamm
You know, it was like, okay, let's solve the problems. Let's move forward. But you did it in an optimistic way. And you saved like the the ass beating for behind closed doors. So I appreciate that.

20:12.65
Betsy Hamm
Because I, I mean.

20:12.73
kim
i But I will also tell you this, I swear to God, the executive team, they all knew everything that was going on in my life. And they were so supportive of me. They had, I had to let them know.

20:26.08
Betsy Hamm
Right.

20:26.21
kim
I mean, there would be times where like I remember once we had an executive retreat plan and I couldn't go. i couldn't, I just, I couldn't leave. My situation was really bad and they were so understanding.

20:37.91
kim
So, you know, I mean, I don't know, but yes, behind closed doors, I could,

20:39.60
Betsy Hamm
That's good. Yeah. Behind.

20:43.39
kim
Yeah, I could.

20:43.76
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. Which you have to be, but you know, like and and we mentioned the the tough love, but um yeah, I think you're the, not I think, I know you're the only boss who ever made me cry I don't cry.

20:54.37
kim
Oh my God.

20:56.08
Betsy Hamm
I don't cry, right? Like, I mean, but I will tell you, it was never mean-spirited, right? Like, you weren't doing it to be mean.

21:02.23
kim
Right.

21:03.81
Betsy Hamm
You were doing it to make people better. And, you know, we talk about our circle. We have our circle of, you know, of employees and team members that we used to work together. None of us work together anymore, but we still have that.

21:13.74
kim
Right.

21:14.35
Betsy Hamm
But, like... ah Here we are 20 some years later and we haven't worked together for 10 years where there's still that group where, you know, we support each other and we cheer for each other. And it might be on text messages or it might be whatever.

21:25.44
Betsy Hamm
But I mean, you form those relationships with us how many years ago.

21:26.07
kim
ever

21:28.96
Betsy Hamm
So it was for the good. and It was for the positive. You know, it just was it was never to be mean.

21:31.73
kim
right

21:33.99
Betsy Hamm
It was to make us make us better.

21:36.26
kim
Right. And I can always remember like, I would have died for that kind of feedback because I took that all really seriously in terms of providing feedback for performance.

21:44.57
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, you did.

21:45.24
kim
and You know, we just didn't, it just didn't get it. It wasn't as much of a priority to others as it was to me. you know, I think if we're all in, we're all trying to get better, how are you going to get better unless you know?

21:56.66
Betsy Hamm
Sure. Oh, i it worked out. I mean, it may be during the time, but I'm here. um here I'm here.

22:04.30
kim
I know.

22:04.37
Betsy Hamm
better. So.

22:04.90
kim
And that's why I will always, yeah, I know. You stuck with me and I stuck with you. Yeah, I know.

22:12.80
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

22:12.90
kim
Yeah, I know.

22:13.32
Betsy Hamm
Here we are all these years later.

22:14.38
kim
know.

22:15.95
Betsy Hamm
You know, the what the one thing that's come up as I talk to people about this whole supporting other women, how we don't do it. Every woman you say it to, they're like, oh, yeah, that's that's true, right?

22:24.19
kim
oh

22:24.25
Betsy Hamm
But the other part that's been interesting to me is that I've had women panic that like, oh, well, I didn't support so-and-so because – She's not good. So you know how do you kind of balance that where sometimes like this isn't carte blanche.

22:36.47
Betsy Hamm
like You don't have to support every woman all the time just because they're women. like People still need to earn you know trust, respect, relationships, credibility.

22:41.86
kim
Exactly.

22:44.15
Betsy Hamm
you know How does that sort of work where you know this isn't just because you're a woman, we we got your back no matter what horrible decision you make or what you do.

22:50.16
kim
Absolutely not.

22:52.80
kim
Yeah. Well, you know, i that I hear what you say, but I see what you do.

22:56.57
Betsy Hamm
ah Yeah.

22:56.82
kim
Like that is such a classic because, you know, women, that I mean, they're so good and so polished at saying all the right things. But then in reality, when you watch what they do, it's just, it's but you are that's a perfect point.

23:10.50
kim
It is not carte blanche. I mean, some women, you know, their behavior and their motivations don't warrant That unconditional support. they They don't.

23:19.51
Betsy Hamm
Right.

23:20.48
kim
So I know it's it's so tricky and I don't have any magic bullet.

23:20.49
Betsy Hamm
Right.

23:24.49
kim
I don't have any. oh Let me give you the three keys to to guaranteed success. um

23:30.34
Betsy Hamm
right

23:30.85
kim
I would just say really have empathy for other women because you never know what they're going through. have frank and candid conversations with them and just, you know, show up yourself being your most authentic self every like every day.

23:46.09
kim
Because I'm sorry, but you see it with your daughters and bullying at school. And I see it with these 65 year olds here. yeah We can't change this inherent thing that women have around being catty and about being small. I don't I don't understand it.

24:02.76
kim
I can't change it. All I can do is change me.

24:04.00
Betsy Hamm
Right. Yep.

24:06.49
kim
That's it. That's all I can do is, yes, exactly.

24:07.25
Betsy Hamm
And who you surround yourself with.

24:10.94
kim
All I can do is change me and my approach. 34!

24:14.16
Betsy Hamm
Well, and you have a daughter who's in her, is she in her thirties?

24:16.00
kim
What the hell?

24:16.72
Betsy Hamm
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. She's in her thirties.

24:19.34
kim
She was just born.

24:21.02
Betsy Hamm
Oh, good Lord.

24:21.09
kim
Just like your girls. like I'm like, like two five.

24:22.29
Betsy Hamm
I know.

24:23.28
kim
Yeah. they're they're um

24:23.85
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, she's still in high school in my head, but but just as she's grown, I mean, you you got her out of the house.

24:25.63
kim
ae

24:28.96
Betsy Hamm
She's successful. She's productive. She lives her own life. Like, you know, what were what were some of those sort of pieces that you were trying to teach her through the years? I mean, I'm sure, you know, she still has to deal with that stuff when she's 30, but like any advice that you've given your daughter through the years just to be able to do.

24:41.71
kim
Oh, good God. I drive her insane. I drive her insane. Like I would be like teaching her about how to do a good handshake and make eye contact as like a six year old.

24:51.21
Betsy Hamm
so good.

24:52.02
kim
Just like she's so over me. You can't even imagine, you know, but I do have to tell you, Carly, I don't know how she never she got into the best group.

25:04.62
kim
of friends and ah she did not experience bullying or bullshit or, I mean, she somehow got it. And, you know, I have spoken to teachers.

25:15.24
kim
I say, there are certain classes that there's, it's a really good class. Like the class of, you know, 2013 or 2019 was really good and solid.

25:20.98
Betsy Hamm
That's good.

25:25.22
kim
And Carly just got, just serendipitously got really lucky. She is like, she's just, and she's a therapist.

25:33.39
Betsy Hamm
That's crazy. That is so crazy.

25:35.47
kim
She's mental health therapist. She got her master's from Messiah and now she's going go to Oregon State to get her PhD in mental health, which is so hysterical um that a kid, a child of mine would be a mental health. and She tells me all the time how I need therapy and, know.

25:53.50
kim
So, yeah, she's, and I think we're so much alike and yeah, she's a piece of work.

25:55.46
Betsy Hamm
That's amazing.

25:58.69
kim
I'll tell you that.

25:59.13
Betsy Hamm
That's amazing.

25:59.17
kim
i I adore her. She's the best thing I ever did for sure.

26:04.15
Betsy Hamm
But she was has been very independent from a young age. So that's you know credited to you that you were able to raise her to be so independent and a strong woman from, I mean, for I feel like as long as I've known her, which is awesome.

26:07.12
kim
Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

26:14.14
kim
So you know what? That whole thing about, you know, roots to grow, wings to fly in terms of childbirth.

26:18.52
Betsy Hamm
Oh,

26:19.58
kim
You give your kids the roots to grow and then you give them the wings to fly. If they grow up with the confidence to take on the world, then you know you've got done a good job.

26:27.28
Betsy Hamm
Oh, I love that.

26:28.25
kim
But I'm always like, I think it's because I drove her so crazy. She went, she got away. she got I don't know what it is.

26:36.96
Betsy Hamm
And now you're coming after her as you've gotten at least a couple, couple hours closer.

26:38.89
kim
Yeah, exactly. It's in Colorado. So I'm here now. So I'm closer. She's like, oh, geez, now where am I going to move? She's going to move back to the East Coast.

26:47.06
Betsy Hamm
Back to Pennsylvania. I

26:48.21
kim
No, she's a... I mean, we talk. She's a doll. I love her.

26:51.43
Betsy Hamm
i love that.

26:51.47
kim
I adore her. So, yeah yeah.

26:52.77
Betsy Hamm
That's awesome.

26:53.64
kim
Thank you for bringing her up because she is the...

26:55.14
Betsy Hamm
Yeah. She's amazing.

26:56.65
kim
And how awesome for me to have a daughter too, because you know, if we were only going to have one, which that was never the plan, but we did. And I'm so thankful it was a daughter because it's just been such a great experience for me to, cause I know every little thing she was up.

27:09.70
Betsy Hamm
Oh, yeah.

27:11.58
kim
Oh, look at me. I'm squinting and pointing.

27:15.14
Betsy Hamm
I mean, I'll let you know if I survive with a 17 and 14. I have a couple more years to make sure they have there their wings and their roots.

27:18.97
kim
Oh my God. You will.

27:22.06
Betsy Hamm
You know, we'll see. But we'll be fine.

27:23.34
kim
Yeah. Roots to grow wings to fly.

27:25.63
Betsy Hamm
I like that. That's good.

27:26.49
kim
Yes. That's a beautiful, it's true. Yeah.

27:29.61
Betsy Hamm
Okay, finish the sentence. If women truly support each other like we should, then we what? do what

27:37.74
kim
Oh, Jesus, Betsy. Why don't you tell me that advance? I could come up with something brilliant.

27:42.61
Betsy Hamm
You're usually good on the fly.

27:44.23
kim
I know.

27:44.56
Betsy Hamm
Women truly support.

27:45.33
kim
it again.

27:46.33
Betsy Hamm
If women truly supported each other like we should, then we would.

27:54.95
kim
We would.

27:58.28
kim
Shit, God damn, we gotta edit this out. I don't know. We would, we should, we would be honest and open and authentic with each other.

28:11.79
Betsy Hamm
I like that.

28:12.81
kim
Okay, good.

28:13.51
Betsy Hamm
No, that's good.

28:14.32
kim
Yeah, God, that's a trick question.

28:14.33
Betsy Hamm
That's good. but That was, I know.

28:15.92
kim
That's a...

28:16.67
Betsy Hamm
might have to get the people ahead of time.

28:18.21
kim
yeah No, no, no. It's best to just, yeah, no, that's good.

28:21.95
Betsy Hamm
Yeah, no, that's good.

28:22.70
kim
Yeah, okay.

28:23.00
Betsy Hamm
yeah Okay. Any other parting words before we wrap up here of just any advice as somebody who's made it to the other side, you had an and an amazing career and you, you know, made that impact on women and that we still have conversations and relationships today based off of stuff you did 27 years ago.

28:25.81
kim
No, I love that you're doing

28:37.83
Betsy Hamm
So just any other parting words for women who are in the workforce, just trying to support each other and and survive and thrive.

28:38.45
kim
I didn't it.

28:44.03
kim
i so honest to God, if you can, if your organization does not have a women in leadership organization of any kind, I went through a file the other day.

28:55.52
kim
I have so much content and I would be so happy to share it with anybody. I have so much information that somebody could really build a program internally because when I reflect on 31 years, yes, I mean, we had

29:06.15
Betsy Hamm
That's awesome.

29:09.64
kim
you know, 13 record years of performance. We built really powerful brands among all of our assets, but the women in leadership initiative is something that I am most proud of.

29:20.56
kim
So I would, if anybody ever wants to set one up, call me, I'm telling you.

29:24.41
Betsy Hamm
Thank you. And if people want to reach out to you, can I find you on LinkedIn? Is that the best way to connect with you?

29:27.25
kim
Yes. Yeah. Find me in LinkedIn.

29:28.37
Betsy Hamm
Okay.

29:29.50
kim
Yeah.

29:29.61
Betsy Hamm
Okay, great.

29:29.91
kim
Okay.

29:30.17
Betsy Hamm
We'll connect that too.

29:30.48
kim
Thank you.

29:30.89
Betsy Hamm
So great. Well, thank you for this conversation.

29:32.00
kim
Yeah.

29:32.97
Betsy Hamm
It was everything that I hope for, for sure. um i just appreciate your authenticity and your just openness to share a lot of what was going on, you know, in your life. It's huge. So thank you for being that kind of leader and for still showing up that same fire 20 some years later. I love it so much.

29:48.23
Betsy Hamm
Yeah.

29:48.76
kim
66 and still going. It's a long life.

29:53.06
Betsy Hamm
Thank you. it's

29:54.11
kim
Yeah, it's a long life.

29:54.36
Betsy Hamm
That's awesome.

29:55.09
kim
So live it.

29:56.14
Betsy Hamm
Absolutely. So for those of you listening, if this episode is something you um enjoyed, please share it and tag a woman who's helped you rise. Let's keep building the community of bold women who show up for each other, not just in words, but in actions. So please follow Loud and Lifted on Instagram, subscribe wherever you get podcasts. And if you've got a story of a woman you feel like we should feature, DM me. We're just getting started. Until next time, stay loud and lifted.

30:21.88
kim
Thank you.

30:23.19
Betsy Hamm
Thank you.